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Q ab. Hard Drive upgrade; PATA/SATA, S.M.A.R.T., HDD Controler

I have a few questions about replacement hard drives for my PowerBook G4 12" 1.0 GHz DVI. (I am also going to upgrade the hard drive in my wife's Powerbook G4 15" 1.33 GHz Combodrive, but I think the questions/answers below will apply to both. I'll just deal with my 12" for ease here.)

I have read Apple's specifications and searched all over to find detailed information about ATA ratings and compatibility, and I'm still in the dark about a few things. I'm interested in a 160GB or a 250GB internal drive to replace my 80GB (which did come standard as an optional feature, although this is my second 80GB--I burned the first one before my Applecare expired), and I'm looking at the following drives, for instance:

HITACHI Travelstar 5K160 HTS541616J9AT00 (0A28419) 160GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache ATA-6 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822146200

Western Digital Scorpio WD2500BEVE 250GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache ATA-6 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136159

Questions:

1. HDD Controller limit to internal drive capacity: I've read that older powerbooks (whatever this means, it wasn't specified) may have a 128GB limit, supposedly meaning that the HDD controller will only recognize 128GB on an internal drive. Anyone know if this is true? How do I find out? It isn't published on Apple's spec page for my machine. And, if such a limit does exist for my machine, can I install a 160 GB and get the full 128GB? (b/c a 120GB will only give me 100+ usable after all.) Will the fact that the drive is lager than the total recognizable amount mess up the cataloging, data retrieval, reliability, stability...?

2. ATA-100 vs. ATA-6 vs. ATA-7 vs. PATA vs SATA. My present 80GB TOSHIBA MK8025GAS just says ATA in the System Profiler "Protocol" field for the ATA drive. I presume that the SATA is a later, more recent, non-backwards-compatible format/pin configuration/?. I presume the 100 refers to the 100mb/s data transfer rate, which is what the Apple specifications have for my machine. The drives I am looking at, by and large, are rated at 100mb/s. They all have other specifications, however (ATA-6, ATA-7), and I am hoping to hear that they do NOT refer to pin configuration differences.

-Q- will PATA and SATA drives both fit my machine, or does the "Ultra ATA/100 hard drive" listed in the Apple Specs for my machine mean that the pin configuration/compatibility will only work with PATA drives? Thus, Is Parallel ATA what I have and need?!?! Will a faster SATA drive work in my machine? Would I be able to swap it out into a MacBook Pro when I upgrade next year? (i.e. are SATA drives &/or boards backwards compatible with PATA drives? And are PATA drives &/or boards forward compatible?)

3. S.M.A.R.T. verification capability. I am unclear as to whether this capability is essential and which drives provide it. Some information states that Hitachi Travelstar drives DO support S.M.A.R.T. verification, but such is not listed on their information about the drives. My present 80GB Toshiba DOES have this capability, so System Profiler says. Before my previous drive failed, SMART notification may have saved me (though it's unclear if it actually made any difference--it's just notification, after all, right?), alerting me that the drive was failing and thus giving me enough time to get the last bit of un-backed-up data off the drive before it died altogether. (This is a presumption based on changing S.M.A.R.T. status notifications in System Profiler and from Disk Utility Repair Disk reports). In fact, however, I don't really know what SMART verification is, and thus I don't know how important it is.

-Q- How important is S.M.A.R.T. verification capability? And what is it really?

-Q- which manufactures support it?

Many, many thanks for any insight.

Powerbook G4 12" 1.0 GHz DVI Superdrive, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Mar 11, 2008 11:09 PM

Reply
52 replies

Mar 14, 2008 9:38 PM in response to joebiggs

Hi guys, I have the same need as Jeremy, I want to upgrade my 17" PB 1.33 GHz HDD, so thanks for all your posts, I guess I will go for a Seagate 160 GB, now I have another question, what is the best way to transfer all the stuff from my old HDD to the new one?

Should I install the Leopard on the new HDD first? how can I do that?

Also I'm going to upgrade my PB from 1GB ram to 1.5 GB ram, I hope it will help to run the Leopard and CS3.

Mar 15, 2008 10:45 AM in response to kapo Ng

kapo:

Welcome to Apple Discussions.

Normally I would suggest that you post a new topic, but if we can resolve your questions here it should work well.

what is the best way to transfer all the stuff from my old HDD to the new one?

• Swap out HDD from PB
• Install old HDD in a firewire enclosure.
• Connect HDD in enclosure to computer via Firewire
• Turn on enclosure (if powered)
• Power up computer holding down Option key immediately after chime.
• Select external HDD and click right pointing arrow.
• Format new HDD as per directions below:
Formatting, Partitioning Erasing an External HDD
• Go to Applications > Utilities > Disk Utility and launch DU.
• Select your HDD (manufacturer ID) in left side bar.
• Select Partition tab in main panel.
( Leopard only:
Click Options button
• Select GUID.
• Click OK
)
(You are about to create a single partition volume.)
• Select number of partition in pull-down menu above Volume diagram.
(Note 1: One partition is normally preferable for an internal HDD.)
• Type in name in Name field (usually Macintosh HD)
• Select Volume Format as Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
• Click Partition button at bottom of panel.
• Select Erase tab
• Select the sub-volume (indented) under Manufacturer ID (usually Macintosh HD).
• Check to be sure your Volume Name and Volume Format are correct.
• Click Erase button
• Quit Disk Utility.
• Download and launch SuperDuper
• Select external HDD as Source and newly formatted internal as Destination
• Click on Options button
• Check Box to Repair Permissions on source
• During copy erase then copy
• On successful completion Quite SD
• Click OK
• Click Copy Now and Confirm
Once the cloning is complete your new HDD in the computer should be ready to go.

Please post back with further questions or comments.

Good luck.

cornelius

Mar 16, 2008 10:30 AM in response to cornelius

Correction!

(Leopard only:
• Click Options button
• Select GUID.
• Click OK)

This should read
• Click on Options button
• Select Apple Partition Map (PPC Macs) or GUID Partition Table (Intel Macs)
• Click OK

I woke up a 2:30 a.m. and thought, "what a dumb mistake!" 😟 Hope I made the correction in time.

Cheers 😉

cornelius

Mar 19, 2008 9:24 AM in response to cornelius

Cornelius, update on my installation progress and a question about keyboard ribbon connector extraction. I did the PB G4 15" 1.33GHz first, and all went well! I haven't opened up the 12" yet, and won't until the 15 is fully functional. One at a time. =)

I'm writing zeros over the disk now and formatting, and will reinstall 10.4 before I use SuperDuper! to bring everything back from my external FW HDD.

Did have a very minor issue in there, however. [iFixit instructions|http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/PowerBook-G4-Al-15-Inch-1-1-5-GHz- BT-1-1/Hard-Drive/54/8/Page-5/Upper-Case] were poor describing about how exactly to extract the keyboard ribbon connector in the 15". It turned out that there was really no need to take it off in the 15" HDD replacement, however, so I just did the job with the keyboard ribbon still attached. I'm worried, however, that the 12" connector will present a similar problem and I know I'll have to disconnect it for the job.

On the 15" keyboard connector, there's a grey housing with two black tabs on either side which notch and click into grooves in the grey housing. iFixit says to:

* [This is a diagram|http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/PowerBook-G4-Al-15-Inch-1-1-5-GHz-BT-1- 1/Hard-Drive/54/8/Page-5/Upper-Case] of the keyboard ribbon clamp connector you will disconnect in the next step.
* 1) With your fingernails, grasp the locking bar on either side and pull up a small amount (about 1/16" or 2 mm).
* 2) After disengaging the locking bar, slide the cable out of the connector.

* [Loosen the keyboard ribbon clamp|http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/PowerBook-G4-Al-15-Inch-1-1-5-GHz-BT-1-1/ Hard-Drive/54/8/Page-6/Upper-Case] by pushing the thin black piece toward the screen, using the tips of your fingers.
* Slide the grey keyboard ribbon out of the loosened connector.
* Remove the upper case from the computer.

I broke off a very small little piece of the top-corner of the grey connector trying lift it. After that I did lots of research, and then just left it. The piece is not floating around--I got it out--and it's tiny. I'm not concerned about this, it didn't compromise the integrity of the connector.

I found no "locking bar" to lift off, as iFixit describes, and i have a feeling that the connector just doesn't work the way they say. Not so sure.

My only pressing question is about getting the connector off the 12". iFixit says to [do this|http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/PowerBook-G4-Al-12-Inch/Hard-Drive/53/10/P age-4/Keyboard]: "Grasp the keyboard connector ribbon near the connector and disconnect it from the logic board."

It looks like an entirely different connector, no grey to speak of in the picture, but I don't entirely trust it!

Thanks for any thoughts. Your addendums were definitely helpful, thanks! ~jeremy

Mar 19, 2008 6:00 PM in response to Jeremy Morse

Jeremy:

That is one of my gripes about ifixit: it has a tendency to have you remove parts you don't really need to remove. They use kind of a template method and overlay one template over the other, so you end up removing more, at times, than necessary.

Locate the service manual for your computer here. This is a bit more complex navigating, but you have more explicit graphics. Take a look and if you have questions please post back.

Cheers 🙂

cornelius

Mar 20, 2008 8:49 AM in response to cornelius

Thanks, Cornelius, this is helpful.

Thankfully, the 12" connector was straightforward--just a gentle needle-nose plyer pull. 12" replacement went smoothly, and I'm running much! faster now, amazing what a little space for more virtual memory will do for system performance. And, I just love SuperDuper! In an hour, my data and apps are back.

This 12" was in the shop under Applecare 3x, and they didn't care much for the screws. There were a half dozen which were nearly stripped and 2 which are ruined, although somehow I did get them out. I thought I was dead in the water a few times. One is inconsequential, one of the three in the battery compartment, but the other is on the back by the hinge, and though I think it's fine without, I'm a bit ticked that the professionals didn't replace their mistake--I'm sure they had extras around. But I'm happy to say that I didn't strip any myself, and all the leads came off easy and went back on easy, the case nearly sprung open when I got the screws out of it (one advantage to having a machine that's been opened 3x previously I guess), and the drive is running fast and steady.

I am a little disheartened by ifixit, yes. I have been through the other manuals and still can't find a good diagram of that 15" 1.33GHz keyboard ribbon connector, but I don't forsee the need ever to take it off myself, so let's spend no more time on it.

Thanks again for your help, encouragement, and good counsel. Cheers to spring! ~jeremy

Mar 20, 2008 9:05 AM in response to Jeremy Morse

Jeremy:

Congratulations! Not satisfied with breaking into one Al PB G4 you have gone for 2! Now, you are qualified to open an iBook (they're worse: require almost complete disassembly to get to the HDD.)

About the screws, I had a similar experience with an iBook that had been "professionally" opened (not Apple, though). Lots of missing screws, badly crimped bottom sheild, damaged edges on bottom case, and other assorted unprofessional stuff. You can purchase a set of screws, if you feel a bit insecure about not having them in place.

ifixit is a great resource, but, as I said earlier, their template overlay approach leads to unnecessary disassembly.

However, all things considered, you have outdone Apple, you have the satisfaction of knowing the job is well done, the sense of accomplishment in doing it yourself, and money in your pocket from not having to pay someone else for an imperfect job.

It is always great to work with someone who has things work out well. If you have further questions, you know where to find me.

Cheers 😉

cornelius

Mar 20, 2008 9:53 AM in response to Jeremy Morse

Just for the record in case anyone stumbles across this thread, the -RK Retail Kit drive ALSO has marked on the drive "Momentus 5400.3" though not on the packaging. They are indeed the same except for packaging. I would suggest getting the -RK version as others have mentioned in the thread just for safety in shipping--the Retail Kit provides factory packaging protection for the drive. I presume the difference in dimensions I mentioned earlier is a mistake on the website.

Mar 27, 2008 3:47 PM in response to joebiggs

Hi
I am about to install a new 250Gb (Western) into my PBK 12" 1.5Ghz.

I am in the process of backing up to an external HD with SuperDuper.

Can someone just clarify the steps after the installation of the unformatted new HD please?

Once I have the new one in I assume that I can boot from the External HD (Superduper) by holding down option key on start up. Then format the new HD etc etc.
(Cornelius I have your earlier instructions just wanted to confirm in my mind before I get into the baby here)

Mar 27, 2008 6:33 PM in response to cragrat

cragrat:
Once I have the new one in I assume that I can boot from the External HD (Superduper) by holding down option key on start up. Then format the new HD etc etc.

That is correct.
With the HDD installed,
connect HDD to computer,
Option boot from external.
Launch Disk Utility and follow procedure for format and erase.

Please post back if further clarification is needed.

Cheers 🙂

cornelius

Mar 28, 2008 7:29 AM in response to cragrat

Cragrat, just to confirm, when booted from your external HDD, you checked in the System Profiler (go to Apple menu > about this mac > more info) to see if the drive showed up under the ATA tab?
*Cornelius, it would still show up here even if booted from an external drive, right? I'm not with my external so I can't check now. It should show up as it will be the only ATA HDD connected to the logic board via ATA, though the optical drive will also be listed in the ATA tab.

And you launched Disk Utility when booted from your external HDD or your OSX install DVD to see if your new internal HDD was visible on the left tab as a disk you could repair/repair permissions on? You might try the install DVD as well if you haven't already. After choosing English, it'll ask what kind of install you want to do, and before choosing anything, go up to the Utilities menu on the top menu bar and choose Disk Utility.

It does seem that if it doesn't show up in either place it is likely a hardware problem.

From my recent dis/assembly, I don't remember any such piece as you describe you have left over. Can you link it to a picture from the iFixit web-based manual? You're 1.5GHz is likely different from my 1.0 GHz 12". ~jeremy

Q ab. Hard Drive upgrade; PATA/SATA, S.M.A.R.T., HDD Controler

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