internal soundcard enough?

or, take a look at the mindprint trio:

http://www.mindprint.com/cms.php?scr=products&mode=1&r=p&pr_kat=7

I just picked up one of these to use while I am out of paris and thus not using my usual setup.

plug it in to the spdifs on the G5 and you have a very fine sounding and flexible i/o, awesome for vocals and for tracking individual instruments.

I'm using it on an xbox game project right now, and I've rediscovered the joy of recording audio tracks from my trusty old k2500 again, because the no latency monitoring makes it so painless and the input EQ really sounds lovely.

plus you can connect up to three sets of speakers (I'm using 2), the preamp and compression on the mic section sounds way classier than I expected at this price, and it has handy other features like talkback. all this, and you never need to install a driver, worry about OS updates and compatibility ever again. and you can use it live without a computer too (I think I read that in the manual anyway)

Very cool...so - whether it's the Mindprint Trio or the aforementioned Behringer unit, would you say using an interface connected to the SPDIF is better than a firewire interface, particularly in terms of compatibility issues and general troublesomeness? If so, how do they rank when having an external mixer or mic pre connected? (Pardon if that's a dumb question...I'm totally unfamiliar with using SPDIF).

Thanks!

Oops! And, what about issues noted on these boards about word clock settings and only being able to record at 48 khz when using SPDIF?

Thanks again!

as far as the trio is concerned, there is no issue with being forced to work at 48khz. I'm not sure where you got the idea that spdif only works at 48k? I just set my wordclock sync setting to 'input source' (or whatever it is) in audio midi setup, and the G5 locks to the trio. you can change to 48 or 96 without trouble.

also, re your other questions.. yes you can always connect another mic pre if you have a better one. the only reason why there is a feeling that adding a mic pre is useful for audio interfaces in general is because usually the ones on interfaces aren't spectacular on lower cost interfaces. there is usually a trade off in terms of your money going into more inputs and outputs. but it seems that mindprint have recognised that a lot of users don't need multiple simultaneous i/o - songwriters for example, that work alone and record one live source at a time. so they have put more quality engineering from their high end gear into less channels.

FWIW.. I personally hate the pres on the digi002. I had to record some cello once with an 002r and I found it really hard work to capture any of the beautiful richness and grain I was hearing in the room, despite using a stereo pair of schoeps mics. so, even though I've not used the mic input very much yet on the trio, I found that the pre, compressor and pre-tuned EQs sound way better than the 002.

as for the question of drivers -- well, there aren't any and there won't ever be any. this means you are limited to 1 stereo or 1 mono live source recording channel at a time, but if this suits your application then there is no need for more.

go to the mindprint site if you like, you can download the manual in pdf. read it like you just bought it, and you'll see exactly what you can do with the thing.

of course you can always hang on to your 002 and use it for tools LE, and also for logic in parallel if you want to.

you can have an instrument (stereo) and vocal (mono usually) plug into it...but can't record at the same time? So...is there like a switch or something?

you can record both at the same time if you want, but not separated into individual channels because you only have a stereo in going in to the computer at any one time. there is no need for a switch - when you are tracking vocals, just adjust your input as you like it and hit record. if you want to record an external synth, do the same thing.

you need two optical cables, in and out.

seriously, download the pdf manual and take your time reading it and looking at the diagrams. it explains everything in plain english that beginners can understand.

SPDIF is will give you just 2 channels of digi in and out. the quailty of your converters are what is important here. i don't imagine that the behringer will be too bad for that, certainly better than the macs, but it has the advantage of also being and 8 input mixer. you could then in theory get external effects in, but i don't know how it would work in practice. also you could have other midi modules but of course they would all have to be mixed at the behringer because you only have 2 inputs into the mac. this setup is limited, but if you only ever recording as many as 2 channels anyway and mostly using just doing things onboard, then it is an extremely efficient one. i recommended the behringer because they mic good mic pre's.

This is very useful information, although I'm still not clear on one point. If I have a small mixer connected to the device that hooks into the SPDIF, would I then be able to record more than 1 stereo or 1 mono live source simultaneously? I've never had to, but the option has always been there with the 002 and I'd like to keep the doors open in case. It sounds like you're saying that the lack of a driver would prevent that, but I'm not sure...

As far as the 002 goes, I've had the documented glitches with Digi's Core Audio driver that make Logic, QuickTime 7 and even iTunes behave unacceptably so I'm seeking alternatives. Plus, as a songwriter, Logic feels like a more creative app for me than PTLE so I'm thinking of abandoning the Pro Tools world (for now anyway!). I've always used a separate mic pre with the 002, so I've never had much concern with its pres.

When I had done an SPDIF search on these forums after initially reading this thread, there was one conversation that implied recording through SPDIF could only be achieved at 48k, which is why I mentioned that.

Thanks so much for your knowledge! I finally feel like I'm seeing the light at the end of the audio interface tunnel...

If I have a small mixer connected to the device that hooks into the SPDIF, would I then be able to record more than 1 stereo or 1 mono live source simultaneously?

yes, kind of.. if you have a mixer connected to the input, you can record as many channels as you have coming into the mixer -- but -- they will all be recorded mixed together on the same mono or stereo track. you won't be able to record say eight live instruments at once and have them come in on separate tracks into logic.

-- you can't overcome the physical limitation of the fact that the spdif i/o on the G5 is only _2 channel in_ and _2 channel out_. so, using the spdif is only appropriate when you are never intending to do live multitrack recording.

personally, this way of working suits me fine. even with a protools HD3 system with 16 channels of physical i/o, I never ever record more than one stereo or mono source at a time when working on my own stuff. I have the option there if I need it for other things, so you could hang on to your 002 for the same reason if you want..
I think a lot of people want to keep this option open because they are worried that someday it might be a problem, but honestly, in a project studio environment... how often are you recording bands?? if you have a bass player and singer to record for a track, how hard is it to track each of them one after the other, giving your attention to each as you go along? I find that a lot of users cling to having the option for multitrack simultaneous recording for no real reason - they just feel like they are supposed to have it even though it doesn't ever come up in the way they work.. it's up to you to decide whether you will be limited by this or not.

That makes perfect sense. Now I wonder if it's possible to bypass the troublesome Digi Core Audio driver by just running SPDIF from the 002 into the G5? That way there'd still be access to recording more than one true track at a time - though like you said, how often is that really going to happen - but I wouldn't experience the daily irritation from running the 002 as a firewire unit. Would that work, or does the 002 require that driver even if it's running into the G5 purely from the SPDIF?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me sort through this...

If you use the sdpif on the 002, you are going to be using it's driver.. unless you use the 002 in stand alone mode. that could work. in that case, the spdif would still only give you 2 in 2 out to the G5, but if there are times you want to record more channels, just connect it via firewire with and use the (god awful) core audio driver.

I wonder...I could probably do this...buy a mixer...and that would go between the computer and the SPDIF device...that way, one can have more than just mono/stereo out at a time. In theory this would work....

no it won't. think about it logically. think of the spdif as exactly the same thing as the simple stereo minijack input and output on the mac. 2 channel in. 2 channel out.

yes. of course you can do that.

I guess what you meant in your previous post was that you can have lots of channels all connected up at once in the mixer, but still only have a 2 channel send from the mixer to spdif. that way, you can have mulitple gear connected at once without having to constantly unplug something to plug something else in.

is that what you meant?