Logic & Tiger vs. Logic & Leopard

It hasn't been so far, no reason to think that it would be in the future- I mean, Logic 9 will be not able to run on Power PC or Tiger I can only imagine, but the version "8"'s should be good to go with the setup you have.

It's also the same OS that I have, so I wouldn't worry about it. And with the announcement of Snow Leopard, I wouldn't go out of my way to buy Leopard- if it comes on a new computer you but, then so be it- but I wouldn't make an actual effort to get it. It's a fine OS, but I haven't really heard of any huge performance benefits or speed inherent to Leopard itself, and a lot of people have said it isn't working for them very well at all. But that's just because there is so much growing pains associated with Apple's rapid development in the world of hardware, some big changes to its operating system and some of the pro apps as well- you know, there are bound to be some hiccups. But I'd rather deal with that than be part of what is looking increasingly more and more 20th century- Microsoft and the PC.

In short, and it seems I never am, stick with Tiger until you upgrade your computer or are absolutely forced to.

At the moment I'm running Logic using this setup:
G5 PPC
Digidesign HD 192 system
Logic 8
Tiger
TDM system

It's giving me a few problems (crashes, phantom audio etc.) so I've been advised to change to this setup:
Mac Pro (Intel)
Apogee Interface
Logic 8
Leopard
Native system

Will I still be faced with the same problems that I'm experiencing with my current setup? Can I expect any new problems to arise with this overhaul? Is it better to use a Native system over a TDM system?

It sounds to me like your advisor wants you to spend money to help boost the ailing economy. The advise would result in a nice new system, but if you want to save some bucks, i'd ebay the digidesign/tdm stuff, keep the G5 (with minimum of 2G RAM)/Logic/Tiger, and then get a decent firewire audio interface. I'm happy with the RME Fireface 400 on my old G4, but check for other's opinions on this forum for interfaces. MOTU's Ultralite also looks ok....

Thanks for the advice. The reason we've been given to upgrade to a MacPro with Leopard is that, apparently, Logic 8 was made with Leopard/Intel machines in mind - and a lot of the bugs we're getting are because we are running an 'old' system. It seems like a combination of this and running Digidesign equipment with Logic that is causing all these nagging problems (random audio playing/crashes etc.)

I know it's a matter of personal opinion, but we've always assumed that Apogee gear is what you need to match up to the quality of the TDM equipment.

Jack

know it's a matter of personal opinion, but we've always assumed that Apogee gear is what you need to match up to the quality of the TDM equipment.

Soundwise, Metric Halo and RME stuff sounds on par with the Digi 192. Apogee is nice but expensive.

Are you using ProTools at all? That's why people buy Digi gear. If you don't use ProTools there are native LP8 solutions that will work very well and cost much less, with and without Apogee hardware.

The one thing that is nice about TDM gear: low latency tracking, even with (most) plug ins inserted.
But even that is possible with a MH2882+2D nowadays.

A native LP8 system is the thing we're looking at moving towards. The only time we use Pro Tools is for surround work - and that is only because Logic 8 doesn't support surround with TDM. For a long time, the 192 has worked fine in terms of sound quality/performance but it seems that as time passes there's a bigger gap growing between Digidesign and Apple - and as good as it can be maybe it's time to move away from TDM/Digidesign etc.

Jack

Have you tried using the HD192 in Direct TDM (Digi I/o mode) instead of DAE?
In your Audio prefs in Logic disable DAE and enable Direct TDM. This will launch the Digidesign driver and will turn your HD192 into a generic interface. The only downside is that the HD192 in Direct TDM mode only supports 8 in/outs.

I've never been able to get TDM to work in Logic and be stable.

Also what console are you using? I have a Yamaha DM1000 and use the stereo rca digital outs to an M-Audio CO2 (rca digital to optical converter) to the Macs optical digital in/outs. This only gives me two channels but that's usually all I need to track gtr, bass, vocals, synths etc.
I actually only enable and use the HD192 when tracking drums or when I need more than 2 ins. I use the Macs optical outs as my main stereo monitoring for Logic.

This has been an incredibly stable system which lets me use PT when I need to. I also have been tracking drums in PT 7.4 and am loving the elastic audio function.

This has crossed our minds, we're just trying to get our heads around how it could work.

All our tracks would be DTDM, routed to the ESB and then fed out through the main output of the 192 - is that correct?

Would it be possible to record audio through the 192 to a DTDM track? If so how would that be set up?

Thanks

Jack

No it's easier than that. In Logic's audio prefs, Disable TDM, Enable DTDM...restart Logic. This will launch DigiDesgin I/O driver and your HD192 will show up in Logic as an 8 in/out generic interface.
You won't use ESB at all, only with TDM.

You can record up to 8 tracks at a time. I don't know why the digi driver won't support more than 8 channels, but it won't.

You can also have the Core Audio enabled at the same time and use those ins and outs as well.

try it

DAETDM+DTDM+192+ProtoolsL8 is working fine for me. Of course I've ironed out a few issues first and might be able to help.

Logic 8.0.2 works better on Leopard on my Dual Power PC G5!

there is no reason to stay on Tiger... in any case you can install Leopard in a extermal Firewire and see by your self the result.

Leopard Core Audio is much better than Tiger core Audio, so, if some little increasing of CPU power request happen, this is compensated from a Great High Quality Sound of all sample rate and bit deep conversions!!!

Leopard + logic 8 sounds very good!

🙂

G

It looks like we have the same hardware and I'm also on 10.4.11.
What version of PT are you running?

I had some free time yesterday and decide to update my macbook pro to Leopard. First time I did it running the DVD from Tiger (clean instal, erasing the hd). It worked but not Logic. No matter what I did ( This was restoring my previous data from the HD backup, maybe the mistake was to take the updates). So: new CLEAN install, this time booting from DVD and erasing everything again. Never installed Logic nor any update. The system was SLOOOOOOW and had hangups... So I restored my trusty 10.4.11 and I´m a happy camper again. One of the things I love to had switched to Mac 2 years ago is to had forgotten those nightmares. 🙂 Not broken, no need to fix it. Now: Still in 8.01, what´s the consensus about 8.0.2 in 10.4.11?

I have the exact same computer you have, and nothing's sloooooow here.

So: new CLEAN install, this time booting from DVD and erasing everything again. Never installed Logic nor any update.

That's your problem right there. 10.5.0, .1, .2, had a lot of problems, graphic issues, etc. but if you had done all of the software updates to 10.5.3 or 10.5.4, including all the graphics updates and what not, you probably would have seen an increase in performance back up to what you were used to in Tiger. I upgraded from Tiger on the same machine, and with 10.5.3 and 10.5.4, it's fast and crisp, and runs Logic really well.



It is good to wait a bit with a new OS to where they work out a lot of the kinks, but once you decided to make the plunge, you have to get yourself up to the latest version, or else all the problems will still exist.



When I was running Tiger, I thought 8.0.2 was WAY better than 8.0.1.




Just my .02 🙂