Apple Event: May 7th at 7 am PT

Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

Reply
2,489 replies

Sep 27, 2017 10:31 AM in response to BecksBhanu2013

Hi BecksBhanu2013


Upgrading to 10.13 eliminated the previous eye strain on MacBook Air

We did it in our workplace as we saw the download is available,

the intruding flicker is gone now,

So......for the new 2017 Air model

10.12.5 no eye strain

10.12.6 eye strain

10.13 no eye strain

Gut feeling? Apple's been tweaking under the hood back and forth

most like a kernel/driver thing.


So Get high Sierra and see what happens😉

Me will do it when I get home tonight

Curiosity kills the Mac? let's see...


PS new Air users might have some fun by first updating to 10.12.6 for that macStrain and then upgrading to 10.13 to feel the whole drama, don't miss this unique opportunity 😉

Sep 27, 2017 10:17 PM in response to BecksBhanu2013

WOW!😀

I'm on 10.13 now and my MacBook Pro gives me the exact same eye strain!

Doesn't make any sense!

I'm done with apple? The final last straw has being reached I guess!

Next year mark your 10th anniversary of macStrain Apple, since this discussion started in 2008

My old PWM-flickered dying thinkpads are far more easier on the eyes, and they are laughing at me now.

Sep 30, 2017 1:51 AM in response to BobTheFisherman

Seriously dude? I think you're kidding?😐


I would think it's more genuine for you to say maybe people like me have genes more susceptible to this strobe like thing than just give that condescending "suggestion"?


And how do you know there are millions who arent affected by this? You think everyone will come here and make a splash? Many will simply return or sale it, others might think they can just get go with it in spite of the issue or they developed their own approach to lift the stress.


Maybe you're sincere in what you're sayning, but still, you cant blame it on the eyes of the customer

Oct 6, 2017 6:12 AM in response to Keynode

FINALLY i have found someone experiencing these same issues. Let me introduce myself.


My name is Josh, I've been using a MacBook Air since 2013. Never had any problems with eyes, never any problem with the laptop, it's been fantastic.


This year i've decided to splash out £3,000 for a 1TB Macbook Pro, (top spec processor, size 13"). I had never even considered eye strain before, so I never linked this to my laptop.


However, what I was finding was that at the end of the day working on my laptop (I am self-employed running an online e-commerce business), my eyes would be hurting so much, they would look saggy and dark, whilst also sore. I originally put it down to me working too much, spending too much time in front of the computer.


I tried to view my phone/computer less, and take consistently regular breaks, but the symptoms persisted and even got worse. I would feel nauseous, fed up and bad tempered from the reoccurring symptoms.


It became that bad that I had the first eye test I think i've ever had in my life (I am now 28 years old). It came back absolutely fine, no glasses needed.


After a long weekend's rest of not using any devices, my eyes would be fine again. Through trial and improvement, 5 to 7 days later I have linked it completely down to my MacBook Pro. Nothing to do with how long I spend on my laptop at all. I am back to using my 2013 MacBook Air, 8 hours+ per day, and absolutely fine.


I have an appointment booked with Apple on Tuesday (those genius people) and honestly I expect to get told that my MacBook is fine. When i KNOW it isn't. Has anyone solved this yet?!?!?

Oct 11, 2017 10:34 AM in response to Jasquith

Hi, Josh

Sorry to hear your story!

How about first invite you to read a great article which spooked me the other night?


To Quote just two paragraph::


Unlike some displays that have 10-bit color built into the hardware of their panels, the new iMac screens will have 8-bit panels and will use a processing trick called dithering to present 1 billion colors to the user.


An Apple spokesperson said the new iMac will use an algorithm that employs both temporal and spatial dithering. The former takes advantage of the human eye's tendency to mix two colors in close proximity to create a blend of the two, while the latter achieves the same effect by having a pixel flash between two colors very rapidly.


You have to open that link to have the full context, you may then very quickly, like me, ask Apple a very simple question::


How about just give us that 10 bit panel, instead of that 8 bit panel along with all the dithering pain in Apples ***?


So why do I bring this up, because as many other members have suggested, that something called temporal dithering (the term spooks me forever) is very likely the cause, it is actualized either through GPU graphics driver or, on a hardware level, by the built-in macbook/iMac display through FRC method, !

In short, it is to cheat million of colors (as Apple advertised on the official page) on a natively incapable panel.

Now, I have to say that somewhere buried in the middle of this mega thread are no less than ten instances as I recall that mentioned either of these things::


✅ the same external monitor that never had any problem connected with Windows computer, started to give the user eye strain when connected with specific macbook model


✅ the same macbook that induces a feeling of nausea, after installing Windows using bootcamp or Linux using USB drive, feels like a different computer, the eye strain also dissapeared or or alleviated to the point of almost nonexistent.


✅ the same macbook of no eye strain, after major annual update, started to cause such.


Posts like that indicate the graphics driver is undeniably involved.

Apple also made dithering mandatory in OS X/macOS, no options to turn if off.



( PS. I suppose when the original poster created this thread back in 2008 he was referring to PWM flickering, because when it first came out it was a far less refined method, and through these years things have been improved and Apple product is doing reasonably well in area of PWM implementation? Check this. So while some older macs of specific model might have this PWM issue the newer ones not likely)

Oct 11, 2017 2:07 PM in response to Jasquith

Continued from last post


With all findings piling in this thread , no one from Apple has stepped forward (prove me wrong?) to clarify on anything, which means Apple definitely has full knowledge on this matter and/but they are sticking to their guns.


PWM is a cheap way to dim the screen, the alternatives(which do exist) is more eye freindly but more expensive to assemble, likewise by using dithering on cheaper(a lot!) panels Apple can save a lot cost, the result is higher profit, yet pricy panels that do million colors in hardware side are obviously better for eye health, guess not much appealing to shareholders on the top.


Am I right Apple.

Oct 11, 2017 9:15 PM in response to BobTheFisherman

I know that Bob!

Do you think at this point i do not already know what Apple is going to say in their official tone if I'm tempted to click on?

No offense to anyone but last time I had "rather quick" exchange with genius bar folks, big mall with that Apple vibe you know! The first two "kids" had no clue what I'm saying, they resorted to a third guy and I knew what's coming, yeah i need to take more breaks and do not look at the macbook for too long?, amazing I bought a macbook only to not look at a macbook for too long as if all my work can be finished on it at a glance. He even suggested me to drink more water? So dehydration ***** eyes dry not macbook? this is genius but hey this is your genius people.

Spending a couple of hours doing some online research and you are far, far better informed than anyone in genius bar. And dont make me stsrt on technical support line, had enough conversations with "roberts", their heart may be at the right place but not much of a help.

Oct 17, 2017 6:12 AM in response to ethan1el

If changing the LED screen alone has fixed the problem, is it possible that a third source of flickering, other than PWM and dithering, which is called inversion, is in play here? 😐😮



The following is from that link,

In a pixel on an LCD monitor, the amount of light that is transmitted from the backlight depends on the voltage applied to the pixel. For the amount of light, it doesn't matter whether that voltage is negative or positive. However, applying the same voltage for a long period would damage the pixel. Do you remember how electricity decomposes water into oxygen and hydrogen gas in chemistry class? Similar things could happen inside the liquid crystals that are in the pixels.In order to prevent damage, LCD displays quickly alternate the voltage between positive and negative for each pixel, which is called 'polarity inversion'. Ideally, the rapid polarity inversion wouldn't be noticeable because every pixel has the same brightness whether it a positive or a negative voltage is applied. However, in practice, there is a small difference, which means that every pixel flickers at about 30 hertz. In order to make this less noticeable, pixels with positive and negative voltages are interleaved, such that on average the screen as a whole keeps the same brightness

Does it "click" on you reading what's on that site? Does it make sense?

The "pixel walking" (inversion flickering) won't appear like "walking" on retina screens since individual pixels too small to spot, overall it looks more like flickering!


Normally this inversion is not an issue at all, but yes manufacturers can screw it up big time if such is unfortunately the case.


I am not a fan of sharp blacks too!! They look so artificial , so "out of place"! we rarely, if at all, encounter such degree of blacks, such degree of burning contrast in every day life, I once thought it too that it is this blacker than black that was causing my eyes hurt, but I assure you it's not.


If the illumination is stable, a black is powerless to hurt you, but armed with "flash", it becomes a different story 😐

Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple ID.