Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Oct 2, 2013 7:43 AM in response to CT

CT, it's rather obvious you have not read back through much of this thread before responding to the comments here and I would suggest you do so if you truely have a desire to make any constructive inputs to the conversation.


Most people posting in this thread have been to many Doctors, I have posted about my experience with Neurologist's (Headache specialists), opthamologists, optometrists and ENT Doctors only a few pages ago and so have others. I have posted about being on long term disability in recent pages as well, we have all discussed possible medical conditions that could cause our issue and there is no conclusive diagnoses at this time.


Respectfully🙂 Jesse

Oct 2, 2013 7:56 AM in response to kvoth

Kvoth and Jessiah1 please check out following links:


http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerI.html

http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerII.html


Did any of you go to the doctors and have any of you done any blood test, that includes checking your sugar levels, checking your thyroid (antibodies count) and ammonia levels in your blood.


Please check the following links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniere's_disease

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatic_encephalopathy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamps_and_health

I am not saying you have any of these, as a matter of fact the second one is pretty bad, and most likely you dont have it, but its worth looking into just to exclude things for sure.


Does lowering salt in your diet help?

Does lowering sugar in your diet help?

Does lowering or increasing fluids in your diet help?

Are you prone to infections? Ear infections?

Did any of these symptoms I have mentioned before occur at the onset of puberty?


Also check out this:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pulse_width_modulation.htm

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/specials/backlight.html


Did any of you try to use any of the following computer monitors:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/flicker_free_database.htm

Dell U2713HM seems like a best candidate!


Please just check all this out and inform yourself, I am in no way trying to diagnose you. As a matter of fact I have no clue what exactly is happening but I certainly know something is going on. Dont let people dismiss this as eyestrain or even worse tell you its all in your head! This is a serious matter.

Oct 2, 2013 8:30 AM in response to ArtechokiQ

Good information, most of the links have been posted at some point or another, the TFT link on PWM is a good read.


To answer your medical questions, I have posted my information before but this is a long thread😉


I do not have meniere's disease, my blood work is clean and good with no liver issues or low levels of any nutrients. I have tried everything diet wise, even gluten free which I have continued simply because I feel healthier. None of these thing's have helped, neither has the depakote my Neurologist has me taking.


The only real evidence I have heard of my condition is an optomitrist who believes my eyes "focus hard" meaning they are aggressive at focusing. Most data point's to head trauma from what I have read and the theories of my Neurologist. I have created an entire website about this issue with a page full of links just like the ones you have provided, I commend you for putting in some real inputs even if some of them are repeats🙂

Oct 2, 2013 8:37 AM in response to ArtechokiQ

The first link ARTECHOKIQ posted in his response is a good one I have not found in my research that sums up many pages of various material I have read into one article. Everyone here should read that page, it is clear and concise about why flicker is an issue despite the manufactures claims of "flicker free" or high Hz rates.


Thanks you Art😉

Oct 2, 2013 8:45 AM in response to Jessiah1

The one thing I will comment on after reading the 2nd link is this paragraph: All LED lights cause severe symptoms for me, even the newer ones that appear to be yellow! So I am not interested in LED lights replacing all CFL bulbs, with anti-glare coated glasses I can tolerate fluorescent bulbs for hours but they do not work for more than 5 minutes with LED bulbs. I will contact the author as well, thanks again Art.


Hopefully LED lighting will become less expensive to the point where they can replace compact fluorescents. Some of the newest LEDs just becoming available have a natural, warm and pleasant color. Theoretically LEDs can be flicker and EMF free, but unless the electronic engineers who design their power supplies develop a biological conscience, they will use switching-type supplies (which are high in EMF) and will operate the LEDs in pulsed DC mode (which will generate additional large amounts of EMF).

Oct 2, 2013 10:03 AM in response to ArtechokiQ

ArtechokieQ

Kvoth and Jessiah1 please check out following links:


http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerI.html

http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerII.html


Thanks a lot, I'll spend some time reading these.


Did any of you go to the doctors and have any of you done any blood test, that includes checking your sugar levels, checking your thyroid (antibodies count) and ammonia levels in your blood.

Yah. I have gone to so many different doctors. I've done two blood tests, One for normal stuff which checks sugar levels, thyroid, and ammonia. Another that checks for rare stuff. The doctors said my blood work was very healthy.


Please check the following links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniere's_disease

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatic_encephalopathy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamps_and_health

I am not saying you have any of these, as a matter of fact the second one is pretty bad, and most likely you dont have it, but its worth looking into just to exclude things for sure.

I used to think that my symptoms were vertigo. In addition to having seen 3 ENTs so far, I was recommended to a well-respected neurologist specializing in inner ear. They did quite a number of tests on me and concluded I had no inner ear issues. So Meniere's is out.


Blood work said that my liver looks great, so I guess Hepatic is out.

Does lowering salt in your diet help?

Does lowering sugar in your diet help?

Does lowering or increasing fluids in your diet help?

Are you prone to infections? Ear infections?

Did any of these symptoms I have mentioned before occur at the onset of puberty?

I haven't tried lowering salt or sugar. I do drink an excessive amount of water to make me feel good -- 1 gallon/day. I had a lot of ear infections as a kid, they had to put tubes in my ears (before puberty). But none of the symptoms I am having now were present then.


Also check out this:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pulse_width_modulation.htm

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/specials/backlight.html

Thanks, I'll give those a read.

Did any of you try to use any of the following computer monitors:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/flicker_free_database.htm

Dell U2713HM seems like a best candidate!

I ordered the Dell u2413 yesterday. I hope to have it in a few days. I'll report back on how it feels.

Please just check all this out and inform yourself, I am in no way trying to diagnose you. As a matter of fact I have no clue what exactly is happening but I certainly know something is going on. Dont let people dismiss this as eyestrain or even worse tell you its all in your head! This is a serious matter.

Thanks a lot for your help and support. I'm actually driving across the country to go meet with a good opthamologist who is aware of, and wants to do more research into this issue. Also, Jessiah and I are in direct contact and he has been an outstanding resource.

Oct 2, 2013 2:53 PM in response to kvoth

Kvoth be carefull Dell u2413 uses an 8-bit panel and FRC.

Now 8-bit panel is OK but FRC is a method that is called dithering.

This way an 8-bit panel together with FRC simulates a 10-bit panel.

10-bit has more colors than 8-bit. Manufacturers dont want to put a true 10-bit panel inside a monitor because of cost, so they invented a method called FRC.

FRC flickers different shades of color to get more colors. This may be bad because god knows what frequencies they are using for mixing different shades of a color.


If I was you I would try the following. Test the monitor with lower amount of colors, and then test it with high colors. See if the change affects you. Dell u2413 doesnot use pwm if you set the brightness at more than 20%. Also try to lower the Color temperature (Make it more red than blue).


Please people I know you guys are knowledgable about this and maybe I am talking too much in detail as if this was not mentioned before, but it is better to be repetitive.


By the way my background is PhD in physics. I study Optics and teach Astronomy. I have been influenced negatively by flicker ever since I was 13 years old. (I remember falling on my head hard two times around then).


Honestly I have a feeling PWM has a big influence on us. But as any other physicist would say nothing works without a physical proof. It is hard to get a physical proof from regular doctors (My thyroid test came yesterday, everything is ok they say as always). All we know a problem exists and therefore requires a solution. By excluding things that are not bothering us maybe we can narrow down onto sth.


http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/ipsmonitor/U2413-review.php

Oct 2, 2013 3:00 PM in response to ArtechokiQ

No Way! Nooooo!


I thought the 2413 was a 12 bit monitor! The u2410 said it was 12 bits.


http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/dell-u2410/pd

Amazing Colour Gamut and Colour Depth: A higher color gamut of 1.07 billion colors allows for an astonishing range of colors to be displayed. The high data accuracy of 12-bit internal processing helps to distinguish very low grayscale tones, allowing for a greater level of detail in dark areas.

Oh my gosh I feel so ripped off. So, does the 27" modey have 12 bits?

Oct 2, 2013 3:14 PM in response to kvoth

Also, does their marketing blurb saying that it's 12-bit actually mean hardware 12-bit color without FRC?


Thanks a lot. I'm going to try to find a 2410, they are hard to find.


EDIT: The answer to my question is here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/dell_u2413.htm#model_comparison The 2410 is an 8-bit I believe with FRC making it 10-bit. The 12-bit is not the color channel bits. SO, 2410 is not what I thought it was.

Oct 2, 2013 3:12 PM in response to Jessiah1

I contacted Richard as well last year via email, he wanted to talk with me but I was so seriuosly disabled by the lights at my university that I could not even get back to him. What was more interesting is that around the same time I could trigger my symptoms with coffee without exposing myself to lights. I am somewhat feeling better with lower salt in my diet and proper sleep helps tremendously. I have a computer monitor "NEC ea231wmi" that is run by a CCFL back light and uses an 8-bit dither-free panel. I was able to overclock it to 82Hz refresh rate via display port. It helped a lot but after one year even this one is slowly starting to give me trouble. Using windows operating system on it makes it worse than if I use Ubuntu for example. So this may not only be a hardware issue. There is an operating system call Crunchbang Linux that suits me best. However I could only manage to overclock it to 75Hz in Linux.


Here is a webpage of a guy testing different monitors for PWM by using a photodiode and an oscilloscope. I will try to do the same here, the webpage is in bulgarian however, just watch the videos.

http://www.retropcmania.com/2012/11/pulse-width-modulation-in-lcd.html


There is a video in there that shows him using a software which actually increases PWM on a monitor. It is called IntelPWMcontrol and works only on intel graphics cards with LED backlights. It took me a while to find this software online. And one has to be really careful when downloading sth from a website in russia.

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Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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