Level 1

10 points

Logic dropping MIDI OUT during a track

Running Logic 8 on a Macbook Pro for live performance. 98% of the time it's working very nicely, but have had a couple of instances where the MIDI info being sent to external processors and lighting controllers is being 'dropped'

There are a couple of additional Audio tracks (software instruments bounced to WAVs) which continue to run and no error message comes up... it just seems that the MIDI instructions stop being transmitted. MIDI IN still stays in operation as Superior Drummer keeps being triggered by the kit without missing a beat

All returns to normal on opening the next song (calling up the next song via OnStage does involve Logic being closed and re-opened with the next song then ready to go) and there's no need to reset anything else

This has happened on two different MIDI interfaces - first time on a USB Edirol UM-1 and second time on a Saffire Pro 40 via FW400, so that would indicate it's not an external hardward issue and with the Logic 'reboot', it would appear to be a software problem

Is this a known issue..?

iMac 24" 3.06GHz 4Gb & MacBook Pro 15" 2.4GHz 4Gb, Mac OS X (10.5.6)

Posted on Jan 18, 2009 1:17 PM

58 replies

Jan 23, 2009 12:04 PM in response to Eriksimon

Hi.

Cheers for the reply.

I've already set the computer to 'never' go to sleep but it still happens. Is there any other setting i should be looking at?

Cheers
Pete

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

Jan 23, 2009 12:34 PM in response to RETAKE THAT

Well, just browse through your *System Preferences*, see maybe if there is a screensaver still active. Check for Login Items as well, in Accounts.
You could also see if something significant happens using *Activity Monitor*. In AM, choose to see "all applications", and order them by CPU activity, descending. Watch it when 'the hour is nigh' and see if some process kicks in at the hour. That might provide a clue too.

regards, Erik.

Cover'd Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 23, 2009 12:42 PM in response to Cover'd

Hi Pete

Ooo, that's interesting! I was thinking of getting the MOTU 128 actually to help my issue, but it seems as though that won't be the fix as you're using that and get similar problems too!

I can categorically say that the problems I have are certainly not directly related to any timescale though - the two instances were worlds apart on that score. The first time would have been some +3 and half hours after boot and the second (a different night) would have been two hours or so. Definitely not identifiable to one hour as it appears to be in your case

Humm...weird

I can say that closing and opening Logic projects won't be the cure either as we do that between every song and have had the problem occur several songs into a set. That's not a full reboot of Logic though in fairness, just swapping of projects

This is an interesting issue then and I don't wish to sound mean Pete, but I'm glad I'm not the only one! 🙂

Clive

Jan 23, 2009 7:35 PM in response to Cover'd

Hi Clive.

Yeah it seems like a strange problem. I was going to try a different midi interface to see if that made a difference and also try my friends MacBook Pro. Nobody i know has heard of this problem so i thought i was the only person who'd experienced this but now there's two!
It's strange how yours is definitely not on a time scale. What i don't understand is how your midi notes stick at different time of your show. My problem happens every night, 60 minutes after i've turned the computer on. Weird. I got told once that my problem could be the computer doing a routine schedule disk clean up.
Have you checked your midi notes to see if they have any after touch or any overlapping note as i know this confuses the **** out of lighting controllers.

The way i run my show is with one big logic project with all my bounced down file continually playing one after each other and a midi track controlling the lights. My mate uses the exact same concept, with the same lighting controller however he uses pro tools and he's never had this problem before.

Lets hope some computer genius out there can solve our annoying problem.

cheers
Pete

Jan 23, 2009 7:41 PM in response to Eriksimon

To Erik.

Cheers for the response. I've checked all what you suggested.
I don't have any screen saver active but i have a blue background selected (but i'm sure thats ok to have this selected)

In Accounts i checked the login items and i have something called a iTunes helper which seems to be an application.

I'll check the Activity monitor after an hour and let you know he results.

Once again Cheers Erik

Pete

Fred B

Level 3

575 points

Jan 24, 2009 3:20 AM in response to Cover'd

Cover'd wrote:
I can say that closing and opening Logic projects won't be the cure either as we do that between every song and have had the problem occur several songs into a set. That's not a full reboot of Logic though in fairness, just swapping of projects

Maybe the 'Reorganize Memory' function would help.
For details search the online manual.

Cover'd Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 24, 2009 6:36 AM in response to Cover'd

Pete - it seems the same, but our two issues are very different. Yours is consistent and predictable (no less annoying but perhaps 'traceable'), ours centres around two different faults:

1) Dropping MIDI OUT to all external processors and lighting controllers altogether (no matter what USB / FW MIDI interface is in place)
2) hanging notes affecting the Triton (since adding the Saffire Pro 40) where they've never hung before!

To make it more bizarre, it's never the same song, same place, same time from boot - anything!

Your point about overlapping notes and aftertouch etc is a valid one, but we've run these same MIDI tracks thousands of times to the same gear from an old Compaq laptop without issue 😟

When setting the new system up, I also thought about making one long project, but we like the flexibility to change the set on-the-fly or as the need arises - it would do our heads in playing the same stuff night in night out! 🙂

Fred - I'll look into your suggestion too, thanks!

EDIT: I just did and clicking the organize button made no difference to any settings and I also noticed the following:

+Note: This reorganization is also carried out automatically after saving or loading a project. A common (and good) use of this feature is to free up memory after closing a project, if two or more projects were open prior to the close operation.+

It's never the case in a live situation that any more than one song is open at any given time... so that's not going to help here either 😟

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Jan 24, 2009 6:54 AM in response to Cover'd

I really think that the absolute first thing to do is track down where the issue is occuring. At the moment, you have no clue where, or why you get this issue. It could be hapening at the OS level, it could be your configuration, it could be your MIDI interface/drivers, it could be Logic etc etc - way too many variables.

As I mentioned above, what I would do is to try and rule out each of these things one by one to narrow down the cause. For instance, it could be something like crappy MIDI drivers - a driver update (or downgrade), or using a different MIDI interface could solve the issue quickly and completely. In this case, no amount of your fiddling around is going to change the coding of the drivers.

So, I really suggest you try the tests I mentioned before as examples of how to do this (If you are not sure of what to do, then post back and I'm happy to go into more detail) to try and rule out whether it's a Logic issue, an interfacing issue, or a system. Once we know where it's occurring, then we can go into deeper and more targeted troubleshooting.

I also gave you some things to try, and you haven't responded with the outcomes of those things, so I can't really go any further until you get a chance to try them out and let me know what the results are...

Cover'd Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 24, 2009 7:21 AM in response to Cover'd

Yep, you're dead right of course Bee Jay 🙂 I'm just looking to establish a list of things to try

Actually trying these things is a tad more tricky at this point in time as the big rack with all the outboard gear doesn't live with me and the MBP is in bandmates studio right now! (I have copies of the projects here on my iMAC to look through)

Given the erratic nature of the fault / bug / glitch, it could be a long and trying process getting it to happen at will. At that point, identifying what's just happened will be a whole other ball-game

It's for those reasons that I'm compiling a list of things to consider and getting them into some logical order to try one at a time. Doing a whole load at once may solve it, but I'll still have no idea what it actually was

I'm going to start with tidying up the Logic Projects a bit as suggested by iSchwartz earlier and work from there obviously looking at how to employ your suggestions too

I'll post a list of what's proposed beforehand for your much valued comment. I have a few weeks without a gig now so it's provided an ideal opportunity

Cheers!

Clive

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Jan 24, 2009 7:24 AM in response to Cover'd

Cool. I understand these kinds of issues are a real pain to deal with, but really the only way of moving forward is to (like you are doing) establish a clear plan of action to reduce the variables and home in on where it's occurring.

Do keep us informed of your progress, as many of us here will be interested in what you discover. We're with you all the way, if only for moral support..! 🙂

Good luck!

Jan 24, 2009 6:18 PM in response to Bee Jay

Hi Erik.... I've looked at the activity monitor but i don't really know what to look for... There's lots of active process constantly changing... The following seem to be active all the time:

1. kernal_task
2. WindowServer
3. pmTool
4. update
5. LoginWindow
6. Universal access App
7. configd
8. mLAN manager.

I don't really know what these mean.... Hope this make more sense to you.
Do you see anything there that maybe causing any problems

Cheers
Peter

Ps TO CLIVE......

Let me know any further developments with your problem.

I wonder if upgrading to leopard may solve the problem as i'm on tiger at the mo. (or will it cause more problems????????)

Cheers
Peter

Cover'd Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 25, 2009 11:05 AM in response to Cover'd

Oof! I really don't know Pete!

I've got 10.5.6 running on both the MBP and my iMac and things 'seem' fine... but I am indeed having problems of course

As Bee Jay said above, I'm not at the point of being able to identify exactly where the problem lies yet - be it the Operating System at the very front end, or the MIDI interface as the final link in the chain

I read lots of stories about people not wanting to change or upgrade their O/S because of potential bugs etc - but then for every one reporting an issue, someone else comes along saying 'it works fine for me'

So, I've no idea on that then I'm afraid! 🙂

iSchwartz

Level 5

4,321 points

Jan 25, 2009 11:34 AM in response to Cover'd

Wondering... have you guys tried Bee Jay's idea of running Logic from an alternate user account? If so, any (positive) change in behavior?

A few more shots in the dark, just trying to think of things that might try to access internet and interrupt things when a connection can't be established:

• System Prefs > Date and Time... is the checkbox for "set date and time automatically" enabled?
• Same with Software Update? Is it enabled?

I read lots of stories about people not wanting to change or upgrade their O/S because of potential bugs etc - but then for every one reporting an issue, someone else comes along saying 'it works fine for me'

Yeah, updating is a crapshoot because no two people's systems are exactly alike. So the effect of an OS update on your system (and the way it affects apps you run) can't necessarily be predicated on what other people report. But very much on the flip side, that's not to say that a concensus of opinion that "X update works great with Logic, blah blah blah" should be ignored. Anyway, you get the idea.

Here's to hoping that you guys get to the bottom of this problem!

Cover'd Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 25, 2009 12:39 PM in response to Cover'd

Again, some great additional thoughts there - I'll add them to the list 🙂

Ta!

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

Jan 25, 2009 11:45 PM in response to RETAKE THAT

Hi, well all these processes are 'normal' system tasks, so no anomalies there. You didn't see anything different at the time things went wrong? I do not see Logic in your list, so was it running? The idea was to keep an eye on activity monitor at the hour - to see if some process spikes when the error happens.
It is quite a long shot, I guess. Perhaps it's better to concentrate on the other steps first.

regards, Erik.

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Logic dropping MIDI OUT during a track