deinterlaced output is not deinterlaced

One work around would be to deinterlace the source video before using it in im09. which I'm afraid is not only tedious but only suitable if your output is going to be progressive, no use at all if you want to edit your 1080i content and export it to 1080i.

I'm going to try removing some QT plug-ins to see if the issue is a plug-in conflict.

To my knowledge, I have no QT plugins installed.

Indeed I am seeing the same thing, but I think this is a QuickTime bug. If I export the source (1080i) clip from QT Player to 720, and check the deinterlace checkbox, I get the same result (interlacing) I do NOT get the problem when exporting to 960x540 (which is what I usually do) In that case, everything works as expected. Strange.

Are you guys seeing the same issue when exporting from QT Player?

Just tried in 960x540 and the output is fine. No interlacing or jaggies at all. weird weird weird!

I have the exact probem with imovie 09. Jaggies with any movement when I export using QT. When I export as a m4v in 960x540 there are no artifacts.

Honestly I find 960 is more than adequate for most of my needs. Remember that 960x540 has the same basic resolution as 1080i, so not much quality difference will ensue. I almost always use 960 as my source for this reason, the quality is basically the same, but the size is MUCH smaller and I avoid these kinds of issues.

Or YouTube ...

Everything that "passes thru" iM08/09 is progressive. If you input 1080i, then both fields are simply combined into one frame (weave deinterlace). In 08, DV had one field dropped leaving a low rez "frame." (Brute force deinterlace.) In 09, from the various reports, it seems both fields are combined into one frame. Which offers better V rez.

Nothing inside of iM knows anything about the source of video -- in particular field dominance. With 1080i, the odd field is always dominant. With DV, the even field is always dominant. AS LONG AS THE OUTPUT IS PROGRESSIVE -- dominance has no role. ALL the lines in a frame are simply scaled to the size you want. Because ALL the lines are used -- there inherently will be combing on motion!!!

The only way to get rid of combing is to take the frames and re-interlace them into fields. With 1080i -- the odd lines go into the first field and even lines into second field. With 480i -- the even lines go into first field and odd lines into second fields. But what happens if you mix 1080i and 480i? You are screwed when you to to create interlace output. So Apple solves this by trying to let you output only progressive video.

In 08, they did it by dropping a field from DV which lowered V rez. but prevented combing on motion. In 09, they kept static V rez. high, but now you get combing. You are still screwed. 🙂

My book describes the way of externally deinterlacing DV so you get full V rez. without combing. But, what about 1080i? Unless Apple closed a loophole in 09, there is a way to re-interlace HD so you don't get combing. This path is for burning BD. But, if you use this path -- you can't mix DV and HD.

Fundamentally, Apple is targeting those who will will buy ATV or will use the net for distribution. If you want to use any kind of optical disc or tape -- you are not hip enough to use iLife. One solution is to shoot 720p30 which works perfectly with iLife. (Or, wait for an iPhone that shoots 960x540 Coming next year.)

Alternately, toss out your DV camcorder and go HD. Now you can import and export interlace video. Use iDVD to burn SD discs from HD exports. Or, use Toast to burn BD discs.

For those talking about a "fix" -- it's not coming. For those promoting iM06 -- I've seen a post that it is no longer available for downloading.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/27/imovie-hd-6-no-longer-available-for-download /

But, if you like iM06, I can't see why you don't buy FCE.

Message was edited by: Steve Mullen

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if you like iM06, I can't see why you don't buy FCE.

iMovie 09 is a fine application if you want to assemble a short video to post on the Internet.



I looked at Final Cut Express, I'm sure it's great for professionals who use it on a regular basis, but for the amateur it's too "powerful".

I know that I could switch to Final Cut Express, however that program does much more than I need. I have already planned for the day when I may have to dedicate a Macintosh for my iMovie 06 needs (using an older Mac OS ect.).

For many people there is a huge gap between the capabilities of iMovie 08 / 09 and Final Cut Express. That gap is nicely filled with iMovie 06.

Steve Mullen wrote:

Fundamentally, Apple is targeting those who will will buy ATV or will use the net for distribution. If you want to use any kind of optical disc or tape -- you are not hip enough to use iLife. One solution is to shoot 720p30 which works perfectly with iLife. (Or, wait for an iPhone that shoots 960x540 Coming next year.)

Wow, I'm not sure I completely agree with your assessment, but then again, it sounds as though you understand video encoding much more than I do. But here's the thing - why give us a plethora of encoding options if IM is just going to trump whatever I set.

"Fundamentally, Apple is targeting those who will will buy ATV or will use the net for distribution."

Now if this were the case, then maybe Apple should have reviewed the HD requirements for both YouTube and Vimeo. It clearly states that in order to render the videos in HD format then they must be uploaded in a 1280x720 format.

If this is the case, and I cannot remove the "combing" effect in iMovie09 at the "net" based HD requirements, I'm taking it back and going with iMovie08.

Steve, I think you are missing the point here, I assume you have tried the workflows others are describing here yourself using im09.

Firstly we are talking about 1080i source video and not DV. I appreciate you are trying to explain things but DV isn't the problem here.

If I import 1080i from my camera, as you know it's encoded as AIC. Now the first thing that has happened since installing im09 (or possibly the recent QT upgrade) is that QT now reports my AIC files as having a normal size of 1888 x 1062, whereas previously it was 1440 x 1080.

Now if I try to use im09 to export that as h264/720p, I experience combing which simply was not there in im08, you also have to realise the same thing happens if I try to export the same source video through qt using the same settings as through im09/quicktime movie.

Indeed combing is severe on all 1080i source qt movie exports from im09 (with one exception), but it does seem more pronounced where the scaling factor deviates from a whole integer, in fact combing is unavoidable and severe when I have tried any of the movie to... higher quality options.

If I use im09 to export to AIC at full quality and the same resolution as the source video, my export is as I would expect, interlaced, no combing and the same quality as the source video. However if I choose a slightly different resolution, the output is still interlaced as one would expect but the video still suffers from combing, go figure.

"Nothing inside of iM knows anything about the source of video -- in particular field dominance. With 1080i, the odd field is always dominant. With DV, the even field is always dominant. AS LONG AS THE OUTPUT IS PROGRESSIVE -- dominance has no role.

ALL the lines in a frame are simply scaled to the size you want. Because ALL the lines are used -- there inherently will be combing on motion!" WHEN THE SOURCE IS INTERLACED.

This applies to both 480i and 1080i sources.

It looks like Apple has made an exception for 1080i. IF you select a 540-line output it is smart enough to over-ride "because ALL the lines are used" and select ONLY the odd lines. Now combing is eliminated. And, this works perfectly with ATV. No surprise there. 🙂

If you want 720p30 without combing, then I would import AVCHD as 960x540. The import will automatically deinterlace 1080i. During export, the 960x540 will be scaled-up to 1280x720. No combing.

Of course, you are screwed if you shoot HDV because you can't import it as 960x540. Steve doesn't like you using HDV. He doesn't like FireWire, either. Stop being a bad customer!

And yes, by importing at 960x540 you are throwing away your AVCHD FullHD resolution. Remember, Steve can't see the difference between 1920x1080 and 960x540. So neither can you.

Anyway, why should Apple help promote HD in any way they don't make money. 🙂 Just wait for MobileMe HD.

Steve also doesn't like optical discs. So you don't get BD or good DVDs. Too bad for you. Note that iDVD is not mentioned on the iLife box -- I'm told.

HOWEVER:

IF --and I'm worried it's a big IF -- Apple has not removed the backdoor way to export 1080i, then you have a solution.

Pass the exported 1080i thru JES to get adaptive deinterlaced 720p30.

Import 1080i into IDVD for SD DVDs.

Import 1080i into Toast to burn DVDs.

And, if you shoot DV -- just stop.

Apple is making a system by which you can consumer media you buy from them. iLife let's you create media, but only within the narrow context of its bigger goal of a huge revenue stream from selling media.

I am not sure this is 1080i issue. I have a canon HF100 that records in 1080p that has the same problem with iMovie 09. Never had this with 08. Hope Apple fixes this soon else I will have to go back to 08.