Level 2

250 points

Update on test of iMovie 09 verses FCP

Now that about a have viewed my test videos Z1 and Z2 and it seems that no one has guessed which is from iMovie 09 and FCP: http://exposureroom.com (search for DVC)

So, what does this mean:

1) Since FCP provides the maximum possible quality from FullHD 60i video, if folks can't tell the difference between movies Z1 and Z2 -- the idea that so often posted here that iMovie exports look bad, is shown to be false. Time to stop blaming iMovie 09.

2) The other belief -- that if you switch to iMovie HD or FCE or FCP -- the change will make your videos look good -- is also false. Switching applications is not the solution.

But, what about movie Z3? If Z1 and Z2 look alike -- does Z3 look better, the same, or worse?

Your answer can have a big impact on how you use iMovie 09.

Cheers, author; The Ins and Outs of iMovie 09: Maximum Quality DV and HD

Posted on May 15, 2009 12:57 AM

59 replies

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 22, 2009 6:34 PM in response to jigbobby

"Time for the iCamcorderHD !"

The Japanese already are selling HD chipsets for cell phones plus HDMI ports for cell phones. Plus projectors to be built into cell phones.

So it's all coming.

iMovie 10 on an iPhone?

jbodger

Level 1

0 points

May 23, 2009 11:05 PM in response to Steve Mullen

What about the VIXIA HG21?

reball

Level 1

9 points

May 25, 2009 10:13 PM in response to jbodger

Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "FX."

pablofu

Level 1

0 points

May 26, 2009 7:37 AM in response to Steve Mullen

I have a Vixia HF S100 and will be upgrading from iMovie 8 to iMovie 9 (don't know which version till I buy it in the store). I'll edit my movies with iMovie (but I do also have Final Cut Pro 5, but I don't know how to use it though).
I want to shoot with the highest quality, what would be the ideal settigs for my camera?
60i in exteriors and 30p in low light/interiors?
Thanks for your help

May 26, 2009 6:32 PM in response to reball

FX means effects such as transitions other than cross dissolves and fade to black. Also, cropping, maps, backgrounds.

May 26, 2009 8:37 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Steve,
I just bought your ebbok (imovie 09). Great boook, and it solved my problem in importing DV clips in imovie 09 (8.0.1) by deinterlacing the clips with mpegstreamclip.
Now I also just bought (before reading your book, otherwise I would probably have picked the canon) a Sony HD-XR500V camera, which shoots 1080 at 60i. Now I still want to be able to use the "bad" FX in imovie 09 (v 8.0.1).
So (this is not explained in your book), can I use mpegstreamclip to convert the 1080 60 i to progressive, then import to imovie and use all the FX ?
I have a DVICO hard disk to play the videos, so I want to keep the highest resolution / quality possible.

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

May 31, 2009 3:58 PM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

Sheryl and Steve,
The Canon HV40 says this:
"+Until quite recently, you'd have to look to professional video cameras in order to have this sophisticated tool at your command. In addition to the standard interlaced video frame rate of 60i, you may choose to set the VIXIA HV40 to record 30p Progressive Frame Rate. This is particularly useful for footage you plan to upload to the Internet for sharing. In addition, this setting gives enhanced quality to still images captured after recording. 30p Progressive Mode is also excellent for capturing quick action shots and sporting events.+."
In light of the fact you stated that canon hdv shoots in 60i, and given that Canon seems to be making a big deal about having a real choice of 60i or 30p with this camera, is this camera de-interlacing the video prior to export?

May 31, 2009 4:28 PM in response to jigbobby

It looks like it does shoot progressive. This was straight from canon correct? BTW-- i never looked at the canon HDV cameras just the flash drive cameras. It was on the flash drive where the fine print said it imported at 60i. I already have an HD HDV camera so i was only looking at the USB based cameras. The other good news about shooting in HDV vs AVCHD is the computing power needed for the AVCHD is significantly higher than HDV. I have actually easily edited HDV material using imoviehd6 on an dual core 1.8 htz imac.

I am very surprised that canon said you could shoot fast action with 30p. I have never seen anyone really recommend 30p for fast action. Well...maybe baseball since i usually fall asleep its soo slow! 🙂

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

May 31, 2009 5:01 PM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

Yes that blurb was from Canon, on the Amazon site for the HV40 under Product Description From The Manufacturer. However, at the official Canon site it says this: " +Native 24p Progressive (records at 24p), 24p Progressive (records at 60i), 30p Progressive (records at 60i+)". If it records at 60i, how does it output at 30p? Very strange.
I'm getting completely lost on the whole thing I'm afraid. I bought Steve's book, which is excellent in every way, but to be honest I started out thinking imovie on my MBP plus an HD camcorder would do everything. Now it's imovie 09, imovie 06 or FCE? AVCHD or HDV? Interlaced or Progressive? Camcorder or still camera with HD 720p capability? 720p30 or 720p60? Sony AVCHD with Sony Vegas editing and straight to blu-ray, or imovie, hdv and WDMP? Think I'll go back to watching tv instead of trying to make it.

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 31, 2009 5:30 PM in response to jigbobby

1) iMovie 09 v8.0.0 has a problem with Interlace HD. Whenever you change the SIZE of video you can get ugly "scaling artifacts." 😟 This does not happen with progressive HD. 🙂

2) So Apple "fixed" this concern with iMovie 09 v8.0.1. If you have Interlace HD AND you use any of the"bad" FX, ALL video is zoomed down to 960x540 which, by definition, is progressive video. Presto -- you can't get ugly "scaling artifacts." 🙂 You just get low-rez video! 😟

3) When you shoot 30p you are shooting progressive video that is then recorded as interlace, 60i. (It is not really converted. It is carried as 60i, but remains 30p.)

iMovie 09 v8.0.1 and 8.0.2 sees the recording as interlace, 60i.

So if you are running iMovie 09 v8.0.1 or 8.0.2 you have the follow the rules for INTERLACE HD if you want maximum quality. You must avoid the bad FX!

4) However, if you are running iMovie 09 v8.0.0, iMovie will work with Canon 30p/60i as PROGRESSIVE HD. Now, you can use any FX you want AND you don't have to worry about any quality loss from "scaling artifacts." 🙂

5) So, if you shoot 30p you should use iMovie 09 v8.0.0. But, if you do you don't get the bug fix in iMovie 09 v8.0.2. 😟

6) OR, if you only want to publish to the web, use iMovie 09 v8.0.2 and import at LARGE.

So you have three options when you own a Canon.

PS: Yes, you can use MPEGStreamclip to convert 60i from a Sony, JVC, or Panasonic to 30p. I didn't put this in the book because MPEGStreamclip doesn't read AVCHD. And yes, you could use the same process as one does with DV, but because each image is about 6X bigger -- it would take a long long time to convert! 😟

May 31, 2009 5:57 PM in response to jigbobby

This post on all your options...cracked me up! Watching TV isn't nearly as much fun as solving the problem! We just need lots and lots of money! I am sticking with my handy dandy HDV 60i for now. I am spending time learning about codecs and frame rates while i organize my video library and make quick videos for the web to share with family and friends. I still input on full--why--future proof. I am organizing my clips with highlighting favorites and keywords. Something i have never been able to do until i got imovie9.

I am really interested in the new digital SLR's. I just bought a new digital SLR last year. I love it, but no video. I am wondering--if the digital SLR's really improve and it shoots progressive! Then add in the lens possibilities...kinda get's me thinking that I won't invest another grand plus in a camcorder! I am also thinking that more cameras will come out with 720 60p because thats what the internet HD is....if i do get anything in the near term, it will be to improve the low light shots i can't do now while also shooting progressive such as 30p--which tends to be better in low light while i bide my time for the next gen mac and a new slr. Yet, no rush. How can watching TV beat out dreaming for the future:)

By the time i figure it out...I'll be finally making a video....probably for my daughters wedding....She's 7 btw.

Message was edited by: Sheryl Kingstone

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 31, 2009 6:10 PM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

The first 720p30 cell phone has been released in Japan. Includes an HDMI port and a TV tuner.

I sense the world is going to switch from my generation's goal of shooting 2-hour FILMs to move very rapidly to video Twitters. "See me take out the garbage." Frankly, I like 1- to 5-minute kitty videos. 900 people have seen my "New Kitty" video I shot and edited in an hour. How many will ever see the BD I made? My wife and my kitties. (They love watching themselves which can be another movie.) That's why I like the WDMP. Export right to a $5 USB keychain. Keychain also plays in any computer. Take it to grandma's. Try taking a BD anywhere.

We know the iPhone runs OS X so iMovie will run on it. All it needs is a 5MP CMOS chip and one of the new TINY HDMI jacks.

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

May 31, 2009 9:05 PM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

Sheryl,
I agree with you regarding your HC3. I'd be delighted with that cam. Right now I am using an old DV Sony (HC 42) but have a new camera in my plans. However I'm thinking after reading yours and Steve's and everyone else's posts that I will opt for an HDV, probably a Canon. I understand that the format is walking the green mile, but it is consistent, doesn't require lots of power and is well understood by everyone. I don't have a blu-ray player and I probably won't get one. I have a standard DVD player, and for now I will probably import at "large". Nice thing about tape is that I can always re-import later. I like the idea of an HD SLR but I haven't seen a real comparison with camcorders. I agree with Steve that we are all moving toward video "tweets" and to be honest I would like my posts on youtube to be more than a collection of jumbled pixels. The HDV cam will do for that nicely, and large imports are perfect for that.
Regarding your daughter's wedding, you will probably be able to view it in real time on Google Earth by then.
Also, a few weeks ago I posted here stating that movies I had made on Sony Vegas Movie Studio looked as good or better than imovie. This was due to my NOT following Steve's process properly in imovie 09. Also the de-interlace feature in the Sony product is much poorer than in MPEG Streamclip.
Lastly I must disagree with you regarding all it takes is lots of money. I bought a new Mac Pro yet my videos still look like crap

Jun 1, 2009 8:01 AM in response to jigbobby

oooh you were the one that had me potentially not trusting my apple instincts and going back to my pc! Shame on you:) lol. Anyway, your right on the money issue, but i was actually referring to buying multiple cameras! The mac pro i want only because i would love to speed things up and also edit 1080 60p with a digital SLR that i can't buy yet!! Thats the money and the dream!

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

Jun 1, 2009 11:32 AM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

Sheryl,
Apologies for the PC reference back then. A moment of weakness. Actually I wanted to try a PC video program, since I have a decent PC that could be upgraded to a 3GHZ quad for $300, around 1/10th the price of a Mac Pro. And I do like Windows 7 especially the homegroup feature. However in the end I felt the Sony program was inferior to imovie in many ways, the only real benefit being tight integration from Sony camcorder, Sony software and Sony-supported Blu-Ray. I held my breath and got a Pro. Maybe I should have opted for a large external drive for my MBP and a very good camera but there it is.
Two questions I would like answered by someone:
1) How does Final Cut Express handle interlaced video compared to iMovie?
2) How can you tell if video is truly progressive or interlaced?

I must admit I would be fuming if I bought a camera such as the Canon we have discussed in earlier posts which clearly stated " 30p" as a capture mode, only to find iMovie sees it as 60i and treats it as such.

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Update on test of iMovie 09 verses FCP