Level 2

250 points

Update on test of iMovie 09 verses FCP

Now that about a have viewed my test videos Z1 and Z2 and it seems that no one has guessed which is from iMovie 09 and FCP: http://exposureroom.com (search for DVC)

So, what does this mean:

1) Since FCP provides the maximum possible quality from FullHD 60i video, if folks can't tell the difference between movies Z1 and Z2 -- the idea that so often posted here that iMovie exports look bad, is shown to be false. Time to stop blaming iMovie 09.

2) The other belief -- that if you switch to iMovie HD or FCE or FCP -- the change will make your videos look good -- is also false. Switching applications is not the solution.

But, what about movie Z3? If Z1 and Z2 look alike -- does Z3 look better, the same, or worse?

Your answer can have a big impact on how you use iMovie 09.

Cheers, author; The Ins and Outs of iMovie 09: Maximum Quality DV and HD

Posted on May 15, 2009 12:57 AM

59 replies

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

May 19, 2009 5:36 PM in response to Steve Mullen

"Bottom-line -- if you want it all, the only camcorder you can use with iMovie 09 is a Canon".

That's the answer I've been looking for. Now can I push you a bit and ask: AVCHD or HDV??
Thanks for all the help Steve.

May 19, 2009 6:49 PM in response to jigbobby

Unfortunately, all the Canons have the rolling shutter effect due to CMOS chips so you cant use the image stabilization feature.

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 19, 2009 7:06 PM in response to AppleMan1958

Thankfully, because the Canons have excellent OIS there is no need for IMovie's not very effective and horribly slow stabilization. And, there are few if any CCD camcorders available today. It's a dead technology in the under $3500 market area.

And, the Rolling Shutter artifact is not visible unless you really shoot badly.

--------

1) VIXIA HF S100 about a $1100

2) VIXIA HF 200 about $750

3) HV40 HDV about $1000

4) A used HV30 HDV

Reviews at http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

May 19, 2009 9:16 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Just bought the HF S100 and I'm reading the manual now. There are a ton of different setting..
It records in AVCHD, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, photos are in JPEG.
Here is a list of the different settings.

Format Resolution Bitrate Codec
MXP 60i/30p/24p 1920 x 1080 24Mbps AVCHD
FXP 60i/30p/24p 1920 x 1080 17Mbps AVCHD
XP+ 60i/30p/24p 1440 x 1080 12Mbps AVCHD
SP 60i/30p/24p 1440 x 1080 7Mbps AVCHD
LP 60i/30p/24p 1440 x 1080 5Mbps AVCHD

What format? and frame rate 30p, 24p? resolution? and bitrates??

Manual says that recording made in PF24 and PF30 frame rates are converted and recorded on the memory as 60i.

So all the media that is captured into iMovie has to be deinterlaced anyway.

Steve, I have your book, 100 pages into it and I'm more confused now than ever. I'm reconsidering FCP or (express). Two weeks to learn doesn't sound really bad, I have 4 months invested in this (cameras and iMovie 09) so far. (I also work full time and have 4 kids).

I have many questions, still reading.

Mark

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 19, 2009 11:53 PM in response to newapplejack

OK -- I really goofed! Somehow I thought "AVCHD to SDHC cards" was real 1080p25 and 1080p30. (I knew 24p was still 60i.) I suspect iMovie 09 will see recordings as 60i and not 30p.

Shoot at: MXP 30p 1920 x 1080 24Mbps AVCHD

What this likely means that with iMovie 08 and iMovie 09 v8.0.0 you will be fine. The fact the video is really progressive prevents FX causing the video to look bad. So, you will need to roll-back to v8.0.0.

With iMovie 09 v8.0.1 or v8.0.2, you will need a camera that really shoots and records progressive video -- if you want to use all FX.

These cameras should work: Panasonic GH1 (AVCHD) at 720p60, Panasonic GH1 (Motion-JPEG) at 720p30, Casio EX-F1 (H.264/AVC) at 720p30, Xacti (H.264/AVC) at 1080p30. (I've got the EX-F1 and I think other Casio's should work too.)

Other cameras that use AVCHD or Motion-JPEG at 720p30 should work as long as they do NOT use AVCHD LITE or are not from Canon.

Other cameras that use H.264/AVC or Motion-JPEG at 720p30 may work. But, not at 1080p60.

PS: forget the HDV canon's as they record 60i too. My bad.

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 20, 2009 2:15 AM in response to Steve Mullen

Corrections:

1) Other cameras that use H.264/AVC or Motion-JPEG at 720p30 or 1080p30 may work. But, not at 1080p60.

2) You do NOT need to roll-back if 960x540 is fine your needs. In this case shoot at:

MXP 60i 1920 x 1080 24Mbps AVCHD

and import at LARGE.

----------

On macs, you only need to drag the icon from the application folder to the trash... yes... that's all! It shouldn't impact other programs.

I bought the iLife 09 disc a couple of months ago. It contained version 8.0.0 (not to be confused with iMovie 08), and I only had to install iMovie again. Make sure you follow the instructions to 'move the project and event folders before you uninstall. That way you'll have all your data when you reinstall. -- JM

May 20, 2009 5:34 AM in response to newapplejack

I'm glad you asked this because i had seen some specs on the canons that said it shot at 30p but imported at 60i which baffled me. thanks!

May 20, 2009 6:29 AM in response to Steve Mullen

Steve,

in your book and in imovie preferences, it has video standard for NTSC-30fps. It also converts to AIC. So when you are shooting 1080 60i and you import on full, are you are editing 30 frames per second or are we editing 60 fps? Then i also follow your directions to export to WMDP and use a frame rate of 29.97. Which means I am exporting at 29.97. Is this one of the reason why the HD material raw (with no effects--just raw video) does not look exactly like the footage straight from the camera. Its good, very good, but as you previously stated its second generation. Is the second generation a framerate of 29.97 vs 60i-- is really what has been confusing me also.

I have been wanting to ask, but i was afraid you would say its in your book. Then I would feel like an idiot again.

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 20, 2009 12:42 PM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

Anyone shooting HD can ignore the terms NTSC and PAL because they have no meaning with HD.

If you shoot 60i -- you are shooting Interlace video at a rate of 60 (really 59.94) FIELDS per second. Since there are 2 fields in every FRAME -- you are shooting 30 (really 29.97) frames per second.

A field is either only the ODD lines or the EVEN lines of a frame. They are captured 1/60th second apart. So motion is captured 60 times every second.

If you shoot 30p -- you are shooting Interlace video at a rate of 30 (really 29.97) FRAMES per second. There are no fields with progressive.

Frames are captured 1/30th second apart. So motion is captured only 30 times every second which is why it is less smooth.

In both cases you are shooting 30 (really 29.97) complete pictures (frames) every second so you are shooting "30fps."

When you import at Large, every other field is discarded which converts 60i to 30p.

PS: All this is not in the book because I assumed -- wrongly it seems -- that when folks bought and used a camcorder, they already understand all this. Now I realize that many buy a camcorder without fully understanding its features. Which is why they then don't understand the camera settings to make.

May 20, 2009 1:47 PM in response to Steve Mullen

absolutely right. When i bought the camera in 2006, i had no idea what i was buying. I am in the majority. I went with Sony because i trusted sony. I checked out reviews that said it was a great camera. I didn't even realize it would take me three years to be able to burn in HD. I also had and still have no idea how to use it on manual. I came back to editing when i saw that bluray burners came down to under 300 dollars.

The Internet has too much information that is too hard to understand on interlacing. Your book and posts were the first knowledge that started the brain waves flowing:) I just wish I had the prequel to it!

Message was edited by: Sheryl Kingstone

Message was edited by: Sheryl Kingstone

May 20, 2009 4:30 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Steve
Thank you for the great explanation of the various frame rates.
With regards to your PS: I can not speak for others but I did read the camera owners manual very carefully and even called Canon with some questions. I have very little back ground in this field and it hasn't come easy. Getting older, new things still intrigue me though. Old dogs and new tricks. You know the tune.
I certainly appreciate your expertise and your willingness to share.
Enjoy
Kent

May 20, 2009 5:12 PM in response to kent11347

I agree, but I too read the manual....but it only gives specs and camera usage ie how to change from x to y. No real insight on what it means, how to shoot and the impact on editing.

so thanks Steve.

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

May 20, 2009 8:12 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Time for the iCamcorderHD !!

May 20, 2009 10:33 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Thank you Steve for writing that out for us. Much easier to understand now.

Can you explain what the different Bitrates have to in this recording process? for example the 1920 x 1080 has two to chose from, 24 Mbps and 17 Mbps. These aren't the same as frame rates, but they apply to how much memory is being used, so the higher Bitrates must be doing more of something?

Back to iMovie 09 vs FCP. Does FCP (express) cut the video to 960x540 when using any FX??? From this AVCHD canon HF S100 camera?

And does FCP (express) better for exporting to DVD studio pro? what would be the max resolution I could get from DVD studio pro by just sharing or exporting vs iMovie 09 and iDVD.

reading the book sounds like a ton of steps using iMovie 09 to burn a quality DVD, just wondering if all the same problems occur in FCP (express) using DVD studio pro.?

And getting back to the 960x540? Does apple consider this to be high definition??
there is
640 x 480
704 x 480
1280 x 720
1920 x 1080
So I'm guessing it is somewhere in between 480 and 720???

I had some information, but I lost it. Can all DVD players play all these different resolutions?
Can a regular DVD player play 960x540??
I know the HDTV's support different resolutions, depending one the one you buy.

Last question for now is what aspect ratio would you chose to set your camera at, 16:9 or 4:3??
Thank you,
Mark

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

May 21, 2009 12:06 AM in response to newapplejack

The higher the bit rate the less compression and the less quality loss.

Only iM cuts resolution. But, ONLY if you use the "bad" FX which aren't available in FCP/FCE anyway so there is no advantage to switching. Simply avoid the "bad" FX and you are fine with iM.

Making a DVD is simple -- just Share to iDVD.

Yes -- Apple considers 960x540 HD. But, nothing other than Apple devices will deal with 960x540.

All HDTVs support both resolutions: 720p and 1080i.

All HD is 16:9.

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Update on test of iMovie 09 verses FCP