Level 2

250 points

Update on test of iMovie 09 verses FCP

Now that about a have viewed my test videos Z1 and Z2 and it seems that no one has guessed which is from iMovie 09 and FCP: http://exposureroom.com (search for DVC)

So, what does this mean:

1) Since FCP provides the maximum possible quality from FullHD 60i video, if folks can't tell the difference between movies Z1 and Z2 -- the idea that so often posted here that iMovie exports look bad, is shown to be false. Time to stop blaming iMovie 09.

2) The other belief -- that if you switch to iMovie HD or FCE or FCP -- the change will make your videos look good -- is also false. Switching applications is not the solution.

But, what about movie Z3? If Z1 and Z2 look alike -- does Z3 look better, the same, or worse?

Your answer can have a big impact on how you use iMovie 09.

Cheers, author; The Ins and Outs of iMovie 09: Maximum Quality DV and HD

Posted on May 15, 2009 12:57 AM

59 replies

Jun 1, 2009 2:23 PM in response to jigbobby

BTW -- What were you doing wrong? so not to steal any IP from Steve's book, feel free to find my email in the public profile. I also don't have any answers on how FCP handles interlacing and how you tell its progressive. I assume you just have to rely on the metadata tags on the file you imported.

Jun 5, 2009 2:11 AM in response to Steve Mullen

I have just bought a Canon HF-11 and I was going to buy FCE because of this "problem/bug" with iMovie'09 8.0.2

Today I haver read that update 8.0.3 has been released. Any change in the behaviour related to progressive/interlaced/FX/resizing? (I can't make any test now)

Thanks

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

Jun 5, 2009 2:34 AM in response to knopfler19

The release of 8.0.3 makes it hard to stay with 8.0.0 even though it has advantages if you shoot 30p with your new Canon. One always likes to take advantage of bug fixes.

But, they key is WHAT YOU SHOOT AND WHAT YOU WILL VIEW ON.

Jun 5, 2009 11:20 AM in response to pablofu

Steve,

This is from your earlier post.

3) When you shoot 30p you are shooting progressive video that is then recorded as interlace, 60i. (It is not really converted. It is carried as 60i, but remains 30p.)
iMovie 09 v8.0.1 and 8.0.2 sees the recording as interlace, 60i.
So if you are running iMovie 09 v8.0.1 or 8.0.2 you have the follow the rules for INTERLACE HD if you want maximum quality. You must avoid the bad FX!

So, I have the Canon HF-S100 that shoots 30p however in records it as 60i. Why would canon do this?? If they made a setting at 30p and then record it at 60i, then what's to point of using the recording option of 30p?????? Doesn't make since.

Steve,
you posted this earlier:
So Apple "fixed" this concern with iMovie 09 v8.0.1. If you have Interlace HD AND you use any of the"bad" FX, ALL video is zoomed down to 960x540 which, by definition, is progressive video. Presto -- you can't get ugly "scaling artifacts." You just get low-rez video!

How are you checking the video clips to see their resolution??? When I check the iMovie events folder "get info" its doesn't give any information about resolution?

You also use the same clip over and over again as test for quality. Does the video stay the same quality in the iMovie events folder?? The video only changes resolution in the iMovie project folder??

Also on import, do you use the archive button???? It says its a faster download to computer hard drive and then import to iMovie later? Do you use this option, and does it compress the video and do more damage to the video quality??

In the finder the video clips show up as (.mov) files. however, when I get info I see that the codecs is listed as apple intermediate code. So, shouldn't the files show as (.AIC) files????

Thanks for helping,

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

Jun 5, 2009 4:13 PM in response to newapplejack

30p could be recorded directly -- and should be -- but no one does. On Canon HDV cameras you get a choice of true 24p or 24p in 60i.

You check rez in the QT Player.

Quality isn't lost by reusing a clip. Video only changes rez during export.

Archeive just makes a copy.

AIC is a codec. MOV is a type of file.

jupasa

Level 1

10 points

Jun 5, 2009 10:57 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Just to be sure: If I use the "bad" FX with 1080i (iMovie 8.0.1+) the resolution change just occurs with the exportd files. So the imported clips in event folders remain 1080i? So I can use the same clips again if I remove the bad FX and get full quality?

Steve Mullen Author

Level 2

250 points

Jun 6, 2009 12:57 PM in response to jupasa

yes you can.

jupasa

Level 1

10 points

Jun 6, 2009 1:35 PM in response to Steve Mullen

Thanks, Steve. And thanks for your ebook, I've learned a lot reading it.

Just a note about the "Apple TV" (960 * 540) quality. I did a test with my Canon HF 200, shooting 1080i. Tv is a HD Ready (1024 * 768) plasma (PAL).

1) Straight from camera to TV.

Picture is great.

2) Import to iMovie (full). Export to 1920 AIC. Then use MPEG Streamclip to convert AIC to H.264 (1280 * 720) and deinterlace it. Then share it to Apple TV. This is possible since ATV accepts 1280 with 25 fps (but not 30 fps).

Picture is a little worse but still quite good. (I guess it can't be as good since it is 3rd gen.)

3) Import to iMovie (full or large - I guess it does not matter). Share it to Apple TV (960 * 540).

Picture is still acceptable (and a lot better than with ordinary SD DV) but noticeably worse than no. 1 or 2.

Since my TV is only HD Ready, the difference between no 2 and 3 was a bit surprising to me.

Conclusion: If I want best possible outcome with ATV, I should give it 1280 * 720. So I guess I will be importing using FULL even when I just edit the clips for ATV. It is a shame iMovie can't convert 1080i to 720p properly.

pablofu

Level 1

0 points

Jun 8, 2009 1:46 AM in response to Steve Mullen

Hi Steve,
I do have a Canon HF S100, I basically shoot in 30p and 60i. I use all imovie effects (I import in FULL).
I bought your book and I do understand that I need to stay with 8.00 instead of upgrading to 8.03, am I right?
Thanks

jupasa

Level 1

10 points

Jun 8, 2009 3:40 AM in response to pablofu

Pablofu:

I have HF200. I believe HF S100 is similar to HF200 in that it really records interlaced even when using the "progressive" mode. If that is the case then if you want to export full quality AND you want to use the "bad" FX described in Steve's book, you must stay with 8.00. But even with 8.01+ you can export full quality if you don't use the bad FX.

pablofu

Level 1

0 points

Jun 8, 2009 6:18 AM in response to jupasa

I do believe it's recognized as interlaced (no matter if you go for 24p or 30p), so as far as do intend to export in maximum quality and use "bad" effects, I think I need to stay in 8.00...
I'd love that Apple repairs this in the next release..or even better, is Canon planning a firmware update to recor in true progressive? (dreams...)

Jun 9, 2009 8:56 AM in response to Steve Mullen

Guys

While Steve is right, there is no output difference when displaying on the web, there is a difference when outputting 1080i output to a WDMP even without applying any FX. You guys can determine how significant. I don't even know FCE and i was able to produce better output! So in my humble still learning opinion, while imovie is fantastic--something is definitely wrong with the output at HD.

I used the same output specs from Steve's book. If anyone is interested in looking at my files. Send me an email located on my public profile. They are on my idisk.

Sheryl

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

Jun 9, 2009 1:24 PM in response to Sheryl Kingstone

Sheryl,
I must agree, something is amiss. Here is what I consistently get:
Import HDV into imovie 09. Imovie transcodes to AIC and places in events. Play the AIC event file in QT Pro and it looks great. Add to project and export using settings in Steve's book for HD interlace export. Result? De-interlaced poor-looking video. . Import the same event clip into FCE and export under the same settings. Result, interlaced, good-looking video.
Import a clip using FCE and export. Looks good. Import and export the FCE export in imovie with the same settings as above. Still looks good.
Imovie is forcing a discard on my imported HDV videos somewhere along the process, but not doing so with other filetypes
Anyone?
PS absolutely no FX fades or dissolves used

jigbobby

Level 1

24 points

Jun 9, 2009 1:34 PM in response to jigbobby

Also, when I select an AIC filetype event in imovie and watch it full screen in the imovie viewer it shows very poorly and has been de-interlaced. THat same file played by QT pro from the events folder is great quality and is still interlaced. If I play an interlaced h264 event file in the imovie viewer it shows well and is interlaced. Anybody know why?

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Update on test of iMovie 09 verses FCP