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French punctuation in Pages

I wonder if anyone has seen the following problem already:

I just purchased Pages. I need to edit documents written in French. In French, quotation marks are not "" but two arrows, sort of like << and >>. Plus, there is a space after the open quote mark, e.g., << this quote >> and before the close quote.

Pages tells me that this sign is a form of a paragraph (in Special Characters). This is false.

Also, in French, colons and semi-colons and question marks have spaces before them, between the word and the punctuation mark.

Although I have gone through the Inspector in Pages to choose French as the language (Text + More + language), and also of course selected French as the language on the top right of the computer screen, still Pages will not apply French quotation marks or French punctuation.

Does this mean I have to go back to MS Word (which I would like to get away from)?


Je me demande si quelqu'un connaît la solution au problème suivant:

Je viens d'acheter Pages. Je travaille sur des documents écrits en français. En français, les guillemets ne sont pas des guillemets anglais "" mais des flèches << et >> . Qui plus est, il y a un espace après le guillemet ouvrant et avant le guillemet fermant.

Autre problème dans Pages: la ponctuation en français, pour le point-virgule et les deux points ( ; : ) et pour le point d'interrogation comporte un espace avant la marque de ponctuation.

Or, en dépit du choix de français comme langue dans Pages et la sélection du français en haut à droite de l'écran, Pages n'applique ni les guillemets français ni la ponctuation française.

Quelqu'un peut m'aider?

Merci d'avance.

Thomas

MacBook Air, Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Aug 8, 2009 4:35 AM

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Question marked as Best reply

Posted on Aug 8, 2009 5:16 AM

For French quotes, you need to be running Pages in French, either by setting the OS to French or doing File > Get Info > Languages on the Pages app icon and unchecking all boxes except French.
62 replies

Aug 8, 2009 5:23 AM in response to Thomas of the roof

Pages doesn't embed a true typography tool.

Whe running the French localized version, the straight double quotes are correctly replaced by our « chevrons » if the user _take care to activate the dedicated preference in « Auto-correction »._

The main problem is that Apple engineers didn't took care of the fact that typography doesn't rely on a one_char to one_char scheme.
You are right, colons, semi-colons and question marks require a space before them.
Opening chevrons must be accompanied by a space after them.
Closing chevrons must be accompanied by a space before them.
CAUTION : the spaces are required by French of France !
I'm not sure that they are required in the French used in other countries.

The author of the freeware "Bean"was able to offer that.
It's really foolish to see Apple engineers unable to do the same (which was asked to them at least two years ago).
Are they less competent than the Bean's author ?

You are free to copy my message,

_Go to "Provide Pages Feedback" in the "Pages" menu_, paste my words.
Then, cross your fingers, and wait _at least_ for iWork'10 😉

Yvan KOENIG (Vallauris, FRANCE samedi 8 août 2009 14:23:31)

Aug 8, 2009 5:49 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

Thank you, Tom. But I do not know what the "pages app icon" is (don't find it), and under File, I do not have a > get info > category. Do you mean the Mac language selection at top right of screen (where one can disenable all other languages, if one opens "Open International" ?


I do not want to put the OS into French, if I can avoid that.

T.D.

Aug 8, 2009 5:59 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Thank you for your reply, Yann.

I tried to "activate the dedicated preference in "Auto-correction"", but this has not worked. Perhaps I have not done it correctly.

If I go to "Preferences" for Pages and select "Auto-correction preferences", there is "Use smart quotes (""), but that does not provide the chevron-shaped French quote marks.

Is there some other place to get to "auto-correction" besides through "Preferences"?

Thanks again, Thomas

Aug 8, 2009 6:25 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Thanks, again, Yann:

I have the iWork 09 box right in front of me, so it is definitely 09.

But my language is English, for the "Preferences" and "Auto-correction". For the screen you sent me, I have it in English. So, it looks like I need to find where to change the language. I do not remember choosing English, when I installed it (which was this morning).

This could be what Tom Gewecke was indicating (?).

Do you know how to switch to French for Pages: I don't see it at Preferences anywhere...

Aug 8, 2009 6:40 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

Yes, I have now done that, and Pages comes up in French, and the French quotation marks are also the default quotation marks.

As Yann pointed out, however, they are incorrectly typed because they come down with no spaces after the opening quote, and before the closing quote. In other words, a glaring error in a French language text, and thus completely unuseable. Of course, one can manually add spaces but then publisher typesetters will have all those to undo....

I'm flabbergasted that something as basic as that is not right in Pages. How can it be sold? Surely the software writers cannot have made such an error.

Aug 8, 2009 7:08 AM in response to Thomas of the roof

Thomas Dutoit wrote:
Yes, I have now done that, and Pages comes up in French, and the French quotation marks are also the default quotation marks.

As Yann pointed out,


You are no more efficient than Apple engineers 😉
I type "Yvan" and yo copy it as "Yann" 😟
Since 1943/12/31 I'm really attached to my true first name !

however, they are incorrectly typed because they come down with no spaces after the opening quote, and before the closing quote. In other words, a glaring error in a French language text, and thus completely unuseable. Of course, one can manually add spaces but then publisher typesetters will have all those to undo....


Sounds a bit surprising. If the spaces are available, the publisher tool is foolish if he add other ones.

I'm flabbergasted that something as basic as that is not right in Pages.


It's basic for a Frenchy of France. For others, it's an old foreign feature ;-(

How can it be sold?


(1) Because many users doesn't take care of that.
(2) because the localization is not treated seriously by Apple.
10 days after the delivery of Pages 4.0, I reported localization oddities.
The application is in version 4.0.2, some global oddities where corrected but localization ones are always here.
It's really pityful (of course our dear peterB will continue to claim that I always say that all what Apple does is perfect!)

Surely the software writers cannot have made such an error.


Who may introduced such a feature if it's not one of the software writers ? Maybe it's the road-sweeper 😉

Yvan KOENIG (Vallauris, FRANCE samedi 8 août 2009 16:08:13)

Aug 8, 2009 9:09 AM in response to Thomas of the roof

one can manually add spaces but then publisher typesetters will have all those to undo....


Why?

I'm flabbergasted that something as basic as that is not right in Pages.


I hate to imagine how many similar things may not be quite right in the 16 other languages that Pages is localized in....

Here's another bug to be flabbergasted about:

http://m10lmac.blogspot.com/2008/01/work-around-for-mails-nbsp-bug.html

French punctuation in Pages

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