Level 1

13 points

Music fonts (and spacing)

Hi all,

I've searched many music and computer music forums and can't find a music font that is designed for (or at least, will work correctly) with text documents. I do a lot of writing about music, and am looking for a better solution than using the pound sign and lower case B when referring to, e.g., C# and Eb.

There are plenty of music fonts, but it seems they are all designed for the particular notation program: Sibelius, Finale, Lime, Logic, etc. When I use them in line, that is, a sentence in Times then switch fonts for one character, it screws up the spacing, making the line take up more space. Even if I decrease the font size or superscript them, they take up too much space.

Here is an example:
http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/~dcottle/Music/Musicintext.png

In reverse order of importance:

1) How can I fix this with the fonts I'm using? I know how to set the exact spacing in Word, but am new to Pages.

2) Forcing the spacing is a kluge. I really should be using fonts that are spaced correctly. Where can I find a font with graceful, engraved music characters but intended to be used as text?

3) Why does it do that? The sharp and flats I use are the same size as the other characters in the regular font. Why do music fonts take so much space?

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 11:38 AM

60 replies

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Aug 31, 2009 7:16 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Well, but in our defense, I was only half joking with my earlier excuses; it's not obvious. I read your post, read about the little arrows, looked at the dialog and saw the +little arrows to the side+ of the number box, which didn't help. I even tried them again after reading your post. For as long as I've been trying to solve this problem I've been thinking there should be a pull down menu, and it should be right here. Something as simple as it not being in a box, as pull down menus usually are, can throw you off.

But I'll admit, not bothering to look at the help file is pretty irresponsible.

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Aug 31, 2009 7:24 PM in response to Badunit

Aha, I get it. It's slightly different from word, where font is a choice. First you define a character style, then choose that from the pull down menu in the replace dialog. This even makes more sense.

Thanks all. You've been patient and helpful, and I've learned some very valuable tools. And my opinion of Pages has improved.

Aug 31, 2009 7:29 PM in response to David Cottle

David

I didn't notice those little arrows either at first.

Apple is in a real muddle with its interface. Slapping on patch on patch on patch.

Still that's Pages for you, nothing we can do about it and Apple isn't listening. If they ever did.

Peter

KOENIG Yvan

Level 8

41,819 points

Sep 1, 2009 2:44 AM in response to Badunit

I may be wrong but replacing the style is OK if we used a "named style", not if the item was 'styled' using the menu Format > Font > Bold

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mardi 1 septembre 2009 11:44:25

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Sep 2, 2009 8:17 PM in response to David Cottle

Correction and additional information.

I meant to say that I miss PopChar; places a small icon in the upper left corner. You click, it show a collection of characters from a given font. Turns out there is an OS X version. It works just as I remember. It differs from most of the others in that it gives you much more information; the ascii number, the key combination for that character, so you can type it next time.

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Sep 7, 2009 7:27 AM in response to PeterBreis0807

This is a long thread, so to summarize:

*Typing Music Accidentals in Text Documents*

Many fonts have accidentals available, but they often look cheap and are spaced poorly. Arial Unicode MS, Apple Symbols MS, and Lucinda Sans Unicode all look good, but don't have italics and you have to use the Special Characters dialog.

Solutions:

1) Use a remapped keyboard like [this one|http://fs.finearts.utah.edu/~dcottle/keymap.zip], which sets opt-s, opt-d, and opt-f to sharp, natural, and flat. (Unpack the zip file, place the "♯♮♭.keylayout" in Library/Keyboard Layouts, activate in System/International, select in input menu.)
2) Or use PopChar
3) Type all the accidentals in whatever font you're using. Select one, switch it to (e.g.) Arial, then define a Character Style (click the + in the Styles drawer).
4) Search and replace (advanced, select the newly defined accidental style) all of one accidental, then repeat for the other two.
5) Adjust the line spacing, if necessary, in Pages/Text Inspector, by clicking on the (easy to miss) pull down menu just below the line spacing box (normally set to "single") and choose "exactly."

Sep 10, 2009 1:39 PM in response to David Cottle

Great thread, thanks David, and Yvan.

This should be easy then: I'm on an old G4 running 10.5.8. 😉

I want to type some notes in TextEdit, like: "insert quarter note symbol" = 100.
if i can do other note types, great!

all i can find in my character palette are a few symbols (as have been discussed here), no notes.

in my Keyboard Viewer (U.S.), at the bottom i can select MusicalSymbols and i see notes on the keyboard, maybe i just don't know how to use them? if i click the the note or type it, it seems my font may be switching? e.g., where there is a quarter note on the viewer i get "q".

any help in here?

TIA

update: i have selected the Character Palette > View Glyph > Glyph Catalog > MusicalSymbols (a font i downloaded earlier)... now i can add a quarter note as i would some symbol (these things are so small i can barely make them out on the palette!). there must be better way?

Message was edited by: Betty Rogers

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Sep 10, 2009 2:06 PM in response to Betty Rogers

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

God hates musicians.

The remapped keyboard screws up shortcuts in Sibelius. Anything that uses shift, option, or control is broken. As a matter of fact, if I try to reset them in the preferences dialog, it gives bizarre results. If I open the "add" dialog and press com-opt-g, in the "I get what you just pressed" field it interprets my key press as control-shift-command-copyright symbol. Control-f gives two control symbols. What the heck is going on?!? (I promise I'm pressing opt-com-g.)

Thus: !http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/~dcottle/Music/bizarre.png!

Message was edited by: David Cottle

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Sep 10, 2009 2:04 PM in response to Betty Rogers

Sorry, I hadn't read your entire post.

During this discussion I did also search for quarter notes and such. I couldn't find anything. The only solution I know is to use actual music fonts, which raise all the previous issues.

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,076 points

Sep 10, 2009 5:13 PM in response to Betty Rogers

all i can find in my character palette are a few symbols (as have been discussed here), no notes.

You need to download and install some extra fonts, like Euterpe and Musical Symbols:

http://openfontlibrary.org/media/files/Eimai/191

http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/download.html

Sep 10, 2009 10:21 PM in response to David Cottle

David

Can you please check this tip is correct:

http://www.freeforum101.com/iworktipsntrick/viewtopic.php?p=81&mforum=iworktipsn trick#81

by following the step by step instructions and ensuring they are all in the right order and correctly named as in Pages' User Interface.

thanks,

Peter

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Sep 11, 2009 6:12 AM in response to PeterBreis0807

Yes, except two things:

There is no "personal" category in System Preferences. So

System Preferences > International > Input Menu.

Or is this the category? In that case, mine is Sys. Pref. > Look > International > Input

Second: Read the last post of this thread. I've just discovered the remapped keyboard throws all my Sibelius shortcuts off. Tom made me another keylayout (not sure what he did differently), but that didn't help. I confirmed it was the new layout by switching between the regular keyboard and the remapped layout. I've written to Sibelius, but no word yet.

Sep 11, 2009 6:25 AM in response to David Cottle

David

I am using Leopard you are using Tiger, I think that accounts for the differences.

We'll let the subject stand for the moment, let me know of any changes and if there are no fixes, we'll add a warning.

Peter

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Sep 11, 2009 6:31 AM in response to PeterBreis0807

Aha. I'm jealous. We'll certainly upgrade, but our tech people are always cautious.

My current solution to Sibelius is to switch back and forth. I can't figure out why the new layout would give such bizarre results.

David Cottle Author

Level 1

13 points

Aug 29, 2009 12:33 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Ah, now this is a little closer to what I was asking. I'll experiment.

Thanks.

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Music fonts (and spacing)