Does anyone have photos of a good ACD 23"?

I need some technical help from users with good ACD 23" screens. I need to see some photos of good ACD 23" screens so that I can decide if it's worth returning my bad screen again for another replacement or not...

I've been following these threads since August 04 hoping that Apple will solve the ACD 23" color problems described and shown on this page:

http://DreamLight.com/insights/bugs/hd23.html

I'd like to have my replacement unit either repaired or replaced again, but don't want to waste my time returning it again if it won't help.

At this point I've seen a few posts from users who claim to have "good" ACD 23" screens. So far though, I have not seen any photos that bear out those claims. I'd like to see photos of "good" ACD 23" screens (23" only, that's the one with the worst color consistency) showing a solid white and solid gray desktop so that I could see for myself if there really are any "good" ACD 23" screens out there yet...

I can't simply rely on any verbal descriptions from anyone else because different users have different color sensitivity and different color needs. Something that looks great to one user may not look so great to another user who may need more consistent color.

I'm sure that a stereo that sounds fine to me may not sound so great to a professional musician... and I'm sure that such a professional musician wouldn't rely on other's descriptions of such a stereo, he'd want to hear it for himself...

One example of why this ACD 23" causes problems for me is that if the Photoshop tool palette is on the left side of my monitor in it's default location, and I put white into the color chip, it looks like light yellow rather than white. Something on the left of my monitor looks warmer than it is and something near the center looks cooler than it is... All this can wreak havok when you are working with subtle color, if you can't rely on what you see...

So, if you have a good ACD 23" (23 inch only, that's the one with the worse color problems) and would like to show it, please take at least two digital photos of it. One with a solid white desktop and one with a solid medium gray desktop like the photos referenced above. Post them on your web page and post a link here. That way we can all judge for ourselves if any of the ACD 23" screens have good enough color for our own purposes...

Thanks,
-MikeS

PS. Please stick to the specific technical subject of this thread without drifting off into any marketing issues or flame wars or this thread will probably be deleted just like the previous one was... I really just want to see some photos of a good ACD 23" in order to decide if I should return my existing bad ACD 23"... I'm sure it would give a lot of us on this forum some hope as well...

Posted on Mar 11, 2005 3:37 PM

79 replies

Mar 21, 2005 8:44 PM in response to Teg Goh

I visited the CompUSA in NYC where Teg saw a good 23". I agree, one of the two 23" on display there is good. Whites are whites and greys are greys without the pink tint. I looked up the serial number and it said it was manufactured in November 2004. The other 23" there which is very pink was made in July 2004.

On an impulse, I bought a 23" that turns out was made in January 2004. The whites are good but the greys are pink. It's not the worst I've seen but the pink tinge to greys became apparent when I switched back and forth between a Dell 2405FPW 24" monitor. I'm taking it back tomorrow. However, CompUSA has changed its return policy so that it no longer charges a restocking fee (the only reason I decided to buy). I appreciate that the store has made its policy customer-friendly. The manager was willing to sell me the good display model at full price but I wouldn't have been able to return it.

Mar 23, 2005 8:41 AM in response to Peter Lee

Peter, can you post photos if you have a good ACD 23"?

Thanks,
-MikeS

Nikoman

Level 4

1,076 points

Mar 23, 2005 11:30 AM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

I've never seen a perfect 23". The only ones coming close were at Apple's booths at Macworld earlier this year. As for CompUSA mentioned earlier, the lighting is just fooling you...
CompUSA lighting is really bad and you should never judge anything outside your own working environment conditions.

Mar 23, 2005 12:15 PM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

Thanks for the lead on the Chipmonk site. It's pretty darn interesting. My 2A5 23" ACD suffers from murky left edge syndrome. So far, I have been able to calibrate out the pinks. But I have to admit going back and looking at earlier calibrations is an eye opener. The pink is extremely obvious.

Mar 23, 2005 2:41 PM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

Mike,

Like I said in my other post which has vanished, my monitor turns out not to be perfect. No pink but light colors fade on the far left side of the panel.

Mar 24, 2005 10:45 AM in response to Peter Lee

Looks like I just was lucky. One hour ago I was in town to buy an ACD 23", cash burning a hole in my pocket. I stopped at one of the larger Apple sellers here to have a final look.

The 23" ACD they had on display had a deeply pink colour; comparing it to the 30" ACD next to it is almost shocking.

Of course, the salesperson was aware of this ("we noticed this a few days ago"), but had not heard that this problem has been discussed on the web. He thought it was a question of colour calibration -- which was really easy to disprove.

Needless to say, I'll stay away from the 23" ACD, at least as long as I'm not 100% certain that Apple has acknowledged the problem and is willing to exchange faulty screens. Maybe I'll give in to the dark side tempation: the Dell 2405 -- I can get 2 of these for the price of 1 ACD plus Apple Extended Warranty.

Dan-o

Level 2

403 points

Mar 24, 2005 11:15 AM in response to David Salter1

The Eizo CG21 is about $2500 I think and in the 23" and under category is the best monitor you can buy for color critical work. The LaCie 321 is the next best I would submit, but I have no benchmarks or anything like that to prove it. Just knowledge of the specs and what they mean / what I've heard from other creative pros.

Mar 28, 2005 4:16 PM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

Bitman was kind enough to post photos of his screen here:

http://bitman.com/site/images/DSCN0060.jpg
http://bitman.com/site/images/DSCN0071.jpg

That screen doesn't look too bad, but it does show at least two of the problems that I've seen in all ACD 23" screens so far...

The white photo shows the right and left sides darker. In these photos the right side looks worse than the left. On my screen it's the left side that's worse than the right and mine tends to turn yellow, not just darker. A straight value shift isn't as bad as a color shift...

The gray photo also shows the wide darker vertical band just to the left of the center. It's not as pronounced as the one on my screen, but it is still there. If you have trouble seeing it, open the gray photo in Photoshop and move it around on the screen. You should see the darker band moving around on the screen with the photo, or simply flip the image back and forth horizontally. (obviously it's best to view the pictures on a different screen than the ACD 23" which has the problems to begin with). On mine that band is more pronounced and is not only darker, but also bluer. Again, a straight value shift isn't as bad as a color shift...

I don't see any of the pink problems that some screens (including mine) show. If you've had this screen in use for over a month, then you may have escaped the pink issue since mine developed over the first month of use.

So this screen does look better than mine, but it still does show two of the problems that I've seen, though to a lesser extent than the two screens I've had... I'm not trying to tell you to be unhappy with your screen, it may be fine for your purposes. But this is why it's so important to see photos rather than simply relying on hearsay. At least looking at photos, each viewer can judge for themselves if the screen is good enough for their own needs.

Thanks for posting,
-MikeS

Apr 10, 2005 2:43 AM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

My 23" ACD is here:
http://homepage.mac.com/philbraun/.Pictures/acd/acd23_whitebg.jpg

What I'd find interesting here are pics of the following monitors: Benq FP231W, HP L2335, LG L2320A, Philips 230W5 and Sony SDM-P234B -- they all use the same LG/Philips 23" S-IPS panel. Also pics of the Samsung SyncMaster 243T and the Dell 2405 with white/grey desktops would be interesting, as they both use Samsungs 24" PVA panel.

From a test (of all the above-mentioned 23" and 24" displays and the Apple 23" aluminium ACD) in the extremely reliable german techie mag c't: "Gute Kontrastwerte, satte Farben, stabile und ausreichend schnelle Schaltzeiten sowie vor allem die sehr geringe Winkelabhängigkeit sind typische Eigenschaften des eingesetzten S-IPS-Panel von LG-Philips. Leichte gelbliche Schatten an den Seiten sowie ein eher helles Schwarz gehören allerdings auch dazu." ==>
"Good contrast values, saturated colours, stable and resonably fast switching times and especially the very high viewing angles are typical characteristics of the S-IPS panel by LG-Philips [used in the ACD 23"]. Slight yellowish shadows at the edges and a somewhat light black are, however, also part of it."

I'd be interested to know/see if all 23" panels suffer from the same characteristics. Except, of course, the pink or magenta tint -- this I'm pretty certain is an Apple exclusive.

simeon

Level 1

35 points

Apr 10, 2005 10:16 AM in response to Phil Braun

Phil, I have a Samsung SyncMaster 240T that had the inside panel recently replaced under warranty, so I believe it's using the newer 243T panel inside (since the 240T was discontinued quite a while ago). I took some photos of white/grey desktops:

http://members.westnet.com.au/simeon/243_white.jpg
http://members.westnet.com.au/simeon/243_grey.jpg

Also, I believe the Dell 2405 uses a much newer Samsung PVA panel than the 243T (maybe the same one as the new Samsung 242MP?).

Teg Goh

Level 1

85 points

Apr 10, 2005 11:31 PM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

Interesting! Anyone has the Sony SDM-P234 to show us? Thanks.

Apr 11, 2005 5:55 AM in response to simeon

Thanks for posting, Simeon, and: nice looking screen, IMHO! (Makes me wonder if I should not have gone the Dell route after all).

Apr 11, 2005 9:55 AM in response to simeon

I see the same bar or blemishes that everyone talks about the apple displays as having on these pictures. I'll buy Apple anyday. I would never ever connect a dell display to my G5. It just isn't right!!!

campi

Apr 11, 2005 12:47 PM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

Ah bah humbug I just bought one of apple store here in Detroit and it's mint I use it for Graphic design stuff and it's pro would never buyt anything else! my 22" was quite nice as well if your gonna buy one make sure you by from apple direct so that you know it's newer for lattest one's call apple office in Cali! that's were the newest shat is.

Apr 11, 2005 12:53 PM in response to Michael Scaramozzino

yeah, i have a good 23". but then you already know that.

shouldn't you maybe give it up about now...it's been what, a year? maybe get another monitor and move on.

just a suggestion....

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Does anyone have photos of a good ACD 23"?