Level 1

8 points

Garageband output volumes in relation to other sequencer output volumes....

First, let me say that I am aware of that tab you can uncheck in garageband preferences that will allow your song to be output at/around its actual final mixed level, instead of having it output at a lower volume if this preference is checked. This is not the nature of my post.

What I am wondering is if other sequencers (Logic, Record, Pro Tools, etc) have higher output volumes than garageband. I for the life of me can't get my garageband outputs to the desired 'radio friendly' volumes that I hear in other music I listen to or purchase. When I push the output volumes to the desired level, it always comes out distorted when the final mix is sent to itunes. I do use an ART Tubepac preamp/compressor so I'm certain I am able to get the recording level I want when recording vocals, guitars, etc....but again, when it comes time to mix it all down, the highest volume I can output my recordings at without clipping/distorting when sent to itunes is just too low for what I need (writing some background music for television). When I compare it to everything else in my itunes (professional recordings), it comes out much quieter. Now I realize I'm not going to get the ultimate professional sound from the minimal gear that i use (ART Tubepac preamp/compressor, M-Audio interface, GrooveTubes condensor mic), but my outputs should be louder for sure.

Anyone else ever use another sequencer and found it allows for louder final outputs than garageband?

iMac, Mac OS X (10.5.6)

Posted on Dec 20, 2009 9:33 PM

46 replies

HangTime

Level 9

53,853 points

Dec 21, 2009 2:00 PM in response to guitymon

guitymon wrote:
How is the comparison after you've mastered it and sent it to itunes? Is it still lower than other professional recordings?

very close to most of them

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 21, 2009 2:55 PM in response to HangTime

How close is close though? Are they of a quality which you'd feel comfortable selling them to people on a full CD for $10? Mine are not......but for a demo, they're fine. I just want them to be of better quality than a mere demo.

HangTime

Level 9

53,853 points

Dec 21, 2009 3:00 PM in response to guitymon

guitymon wrote:
How close is close though?

very

Are they of a quality which you'd feel comfortable selling them to people on a full CD for $10?

though i can't claim the background of a pro engineer (and there are changes i'd make if i re-did the collection), i did sell an album, so yes.

Mine are not......but for a demo, they're fine.

there are Mastering houses that offer reasonable prices, do some web searches for businesses, and what people are saying about them if you're unhappy with your own results.

Dec 22, 2009 1:59 AM in response to guitymon

This whole discussion is very vague - if you could post one of your mixes somewhere, people could tell you if they consider them "loud enough" or "very close to commercial" sound quality.

In terms of sound quality, the only real backdraw of GB compared to other DAWs is its relatively low bit resolution (24 bit output, I think it works with 32 bits internally), otherwise you have the full spectrum of AU effects to work on the sound, from Apple's internal ones to tons of shareware or commercial plugins. So if your mix doesn't sound right, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not GB's fault, and switching to a more expensive software wouldn't take you any further.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 22, 2009 8:58 AM in response to HangTime

I'm going to try another recording next week and see if I can get better results.

But just to play devil's advocate, I think you're giving GB too much credit as a DAW. Just look at this board, it's filled with problems and issues in nearly every thread. I mean, it's a free program that comes with Mac. If it was a quality product, people who bought Macs wouldn't purchase Pro Tools, Logic, etc. To claim GB doesn't have numerous shortcomings would be naive. Why couldn't GBs output signal yield yet another problem or issue?

Dec 22, 2009 9:08 AM in response to guitymon

Just look at this board, it's filled with problems and issues in nearly every thread.

That's the nature of a support forum, isn't it?

If it was a quality product, people who bought Macs wouldn't purchase Pro Tools, Logic, etc.

It is an easy-to-use, stripped down product targeted at beginners and amateurs. And of such high quality that a lot of professionals use it too, because of its simplicity. If people upgrade to more complex DAWs, they do it because they want the additional features that these programs offer.

All that doesn't mean that GB has no flaws - but I'm pretty sure that your problem isn't one of them.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 22, 2009 10:12 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

Well I appreciate all your advice and time to deal with this issue that I'm having......though i'm still not convinced my problem doesn't stem from GBs shortcomings. There mere fact that I can crank my song at full volume on my monitors *while in* GB without any clipping/distortion, yet can't output it to itunes without the clipping/distortion being prevalent tells me there's something fishy going on in the post recording, not the pre.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 22, 2009 7:52 PM in response to Christoph Drösser

I just tried something that i think proves my theory about it being a GB issue and not something on my end with recording. I just dragged a couple of professionally recorded tracks (from various music I purchased through itunes) into a track in one of my GB projects and what do you know, but the levels were peaking and clipping....proving my point that GB has a very low output level, thus having a low clipping tolerance. These are professional-grade recordings that have been mastered, yet they come out too hot when dropped into a basic GB track.

Doesn't this seem to prove my point?

Dec 23, 2009 12:12 AM in response to guitymon

@guitymon
Wanted to respond but would rather not do so here. Your profile any contact info.

Dec 23, 2009 12:14 AM in response to guitymon

@guitymon
Wanted to respond but would rather not do so here. Your profile lacks any contact info.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 23, 2009 12:17 AM in response to projectmgr

willafunk@yahoo.com

Dec 23, 2009 3:02 AM in response to guitymon

Doesn't this seem to prove my point?

On the contrary, it proves that you are doing something wrong. If you import a recording and apply no effects at all, it can only clip if the track volume or the master volulme (or both) are cranked up too high - GB doesn't add anything in the process besides raising or lowering levels. The default slider positions are just arbitrary presets, and they can be too high for "loud" finished mixes as opposed to something that you record yourself. You really have to go the way of maxing your volumes without clipping - even if that takes you 2x3 minutes to monitor the whole song.

poflynn

Level 4

1,303 points

Dec 23, 2009 7:31 AM in response to guitymon

guitymon wrote: Just look at this board, it's filled with problems and issues in nearly every thread. I mean, it's a free program that comes with Mac. If it was a quality product, people who bought Macs wouldn't purchase Pro Tools, Logic, etc.

Take a look at the Logic forum.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 23, 2009 8:42 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

Wait, so the Unity volume setting (0.0db) in Garageband is just some arbitrary location on the slider?! That doesn't make much sense. I had the imported tracks set at unity and it was clipping....but you're saying that's not really Unity (0.0db)?

Dec 23, 2009 8:54 AM in response to guitymon

Okay, I take that back, it's a 0 dB setting, meaning it doesn't make the recording any louder or softer. But I just did a test with a commercial pop song, imported it to a track set at 0 dB with the master volume set at 0 dB too, re-imported it - and the two waveforms really sound and look the same, no clipping at all. Have you looked at the waveform of your export (e.g. by re-importing it) - does it really have spikes that are cut off at the top? That would be clipping.

Another thought: Have you turned off all "sound enhancement" and normalizing options in iTunes? Otherwise it doesn't play your mixes faithfully.

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Garageband output volumes in relation to other sequencer output volumes....