Level 1

8 points

Garageband output volumes in relation to other sequencer output volumes....

First, let me say that I am aware of that tab you can uncheck in garageband preferences that will allow your song to be output at/around its actual final mixed level, instead of having it output at a lower volume if this preference is checked. This is not the nature of my post.

What I am wondering is if other sequencers (Logic, Record, Pro Tools, etc) have higher output volumes than garageband. I for the life of me can't get my garageband outputs to the desired 'radio friendly' volumes that I hear in other music I listen to or purchase. When I push the output volumes to the desired level, it always comes out distorted when the final mix is sent to itunes. I do use an ART Tubepac preamp/compressor so I'm certain I am able to get the recording level I want when recording vocals, guitars, etc....but again, when it comes time to mix it all down, the highest volume I can output my recordings at without clipping/distorting when sent to itunes is just too low for what I need (writing some background music for television). When I compare it to everything else in my itunes (professional recordings), it comes out much quieter. Now I realize I'm not going to get the ultimate professional sound from the minimal gear that i use (ART Tubepac preamp/compressor, M-Audio interface, GrooveTubes condensor mic), but my outputs should be louder for sure.

Anyone else ever use another sequencer and found it allows for louder final outputs than garageband?

iMac, Mac OS X (10.5.6)

Posted on Dec 20, 2009 9:33 PM

46 replies

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 23, 2009 9:03 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

+"The default slider positions are just arbitrary presets, and they can be too high for "loud" finished mixes as opposed to something that you record yourself"+

I think you're missing what I'm pointing out here (and I apologize that I'm not great at summing up my problems in paragraph form). IfI import a song and then am forced to set the track level of the imported song to a lower volume so it's not clipping in garageband, *then I am essentially lowering the overall output volume of the song.* A reoutput of this song will now yield a lower volume than its original.

I'm sure you're getting frustrated with my devil's advocate approach here, but i don't see how this observation doesn't prove GB's clipping tolerance (and subsequent output level) is lower than industry standard.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 23, 2009 9:08 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

I do have everything turned off (compression, sound enhancements, etc). I will say that I imported about 1/2 a dozen tunes to test this out and I experienced clipping (2 red dots turned on) with only 2 of the songs.....but still, there is some sort of volume indiscrepency I'm having with my GB.

poflynn

Level 4

1,303 points

Dec 23, 2009 10:18 AM in response to guitymon

What happens if you drag in an iTunes song into a brand new blank GB Project? Aren't the levels the same, and not clipping?

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 23, 2009 10:22 AM in response to poflynn

A couple of the songs i brought into itunes (in a brand new project, no effects) were peaking into the red and clipped (lighting up the two red dots in the master output meter) a couple times when I had everything set to 0.0db. Granted, I brought in a few songs and not all clipped, but the fact that a couple did tells me there's something wrong.

Zoomman

Level 1

89 points

Dec 26, 2009 8:57 AM in response to guitymon

GB is a tremendous package. Yes it is free but it is not that limited in what you can do with it. I suspect most people (like me) never even scratch the surface of the mastering and EQ settings. Having said that, I find the output from GB (in my experience!) IS a little lower in volume than that from Logic or Cubase for instance. Mastering has an effect but my lack of mastering skills doesn't boost it by that much!

The easiest solution I've found is to output the GB project so that you're getting no clipping and then import that track into Audacity and boost the volume using the controls in Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Not a particularly elegant solution to use all the time but it works well enough for me.

If you're seriously going to produce a CD for sale I'd recommend getting it professionally mastered. I took a GB produced track of mine to the studio where we recorded our last CD and within 10 minutes the engineer had it sounding significantly better that I could ever hope to get.

Good luck!

Cheers

Dick

Message was edited by: Zoomman

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 27, 2009 10:26 AM in response to Zoomman

Thanks for the confirmation. That's what I assumed. Not a bad idea to use Audacity to boost the volume. I'll have to try that!

Dec 27, 2009 10:39 AM in response to guitymon

If you just "boost" the volume in Audacity, i.e. normalize your song to 0 dB or so, not using Audacity's compressors, it won't give you more than what you can do in GB by carefully adjusting the master volume.

Maybe you should really post an audio sample so people can judge whether your problem is really the peak volume or a lack of mastering!

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 27, 2009 11:07 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

Who, other than a professional or semi-professional engineer really knows the ins and outs of mastering? Certainly not me and I doubt 99.9% of people using a free program like GB....so if having a strong, encompassing knowledge in mastering is necessary to make a simple song in GB with a decent output level, then we're all at a loss.

poflynn

Level 4

1,303 points

Dec 27, 2009 1:32 PM in response to guitymon

guitymon wrote:with a decent output level

"Decent" is easily achievable. Pro quality is a bit different. Especially if you're comparing to a lot of today's music which is mixed too loud, imho. Check out this article:
http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.html

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 27, 2009 1:44 PM in response to poflynn

I think we've lost track of what my original thread topic was: how does GB output level compare to other DAW output levels. Somehow this thread became some sort of question/answer session about my recording techniques and mastering ability. All I'm trying to find out is if there's anyone who has recorded a song in GB (with minimal knowledge of compression/mastering) and also recorded a song in some other DAW (with minimal knowledge of compression/mastering) and if the GB recording output is essentially lower. So far I've only had one person respond directly to this question and their answer was yes......not to mention Christoph also agreed his GB recordings are lower, albeit minimal.

Point is, GBs outputs are seemingly lower than other DAWs. This is what I've gathered from this chaotic thread!

Dec 27, 2009 3:30 PM in response to guitymon

Point is, GBs outputs are seemingly lower than other DAWs.

That's the assertion that you started the thread with, and basically everybody disagreed. I think this is going in circles - since you never said what you mean by "level" and don't supply examples, nobody will be able to help you. If "level" means the peak level of your song, the answer is easy: Look at your sound file in any audio editor, and bring the peak to any level you want (but you won't achieve anything that you can't do with GB). If it's about perceived loudness, the answer is mixing and mastering. You seem to expect some kind of magic from other DAWs - so go ahead and try.

guitymon Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 27, 2009 4:04 PM in response to Christoph Drösser

'Everybody' didn't disagree. There were all of 4 people who chimed in on this thread and 2 of them, yourself included, admitted that GB outputs sound lower than normal.

What is the reason for your unwaivering loyalty to GB that you can't admit the output level seems a bit lower than normal? Do they pay your salary or something?!

Dec 27, 2009 4:09 PM in response to guitymon

(I give up.)

poflynn

Level 4

1,303 points

Dec 27, 2009 6:02 PM in response to guitymon

guitymon wrote:
'Everybody' didn't disagree. There were all of 4 people who chimed in on this thread and 2 of them, yourself included, admitted that GB outputs sound lower than normal.

What is the reason for your unwaivering loyalty to GB that you can't admit the output level seems a bit lower than normal? Do they pay your salary or something?!

Christoph said no such thing; reread the posts. He also admitted to GB having flaws, so...

PS - I suggest going to the Logic forums, where many have used GB as well, and ask there.

Message was edited by: p o'flynn

poflynn

Level 4

1,303 points

Dec 27, 2009 8:15 PM in response to guitymon

There's a tute on this site claiming that using WireTap (or, I suppose, AudioHiJack) is better than using GB's Share function.

http://howardmart.com/garageband/

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

Garageband output volumes in relation to other sequencer output volumes....