Mac mini (Mid 2010) HDMI & DTS-HD

I 100% disagree, so, we'll just have to leave it that way. I don't see ANY products that require me to use Windows, so, have no idea what you are talking about. Your examples are always business. Perhaps there are some niche products that have this issue, don't know. I just don't encounter things in the Macs I know of that require Windoze, plain and simple. Perhaps your experience is different, if so, then so be it. The people I know with Macs, have used Bootcamp to run software they used to own when they had a Windows computer, converting or being cheap, or because they don't know any better. Sometimes, it's just games. But, hardly things they need or require. I converted one sister in law to Mac and used iWork instead of MS Word, etc. No big deal. They, like me, don't use WIndows software, no need for it. Every normal life activity I use Mac for, no need for Windoze software and having done programming work on Windoze pcs for many many years, I find the software better anyway on Mac for most normal activities. If people were converting from Mac to Windoze, trust me, they'd also be sad to lose software they had been using. If they had used a bunch for years.

As far as Bluray, you gave zero reasons why someone would want one in a computer other than to just be cool and have it. Not a good reason. Put the bluray disk in a bluray player, simpler, easier, and cheaper. Not all technical possibilities are better. Far from it. I like technology when it serves a useful purpose. For the hundreds of devices that are more for being better than someone else than practical use (status symbols or following the crowd, or simply wasting money), no, I don't really care about them. Yes, there are thousands of complaints. So? There are millions sold.

Having said that, you can add on a bluray player (go ahead, no one has denied you that right), that's not the issue of course. It's the software of course, you need a bluray piece of software that plays them. And likely OS support to allow that. Would that be nice? Sure. Would many people enjoy that? Sure. But if it's a deal BREAKER, then, people wouldn't but the Mini for a HTPC now would they? I know, maybe they'd sell more but I doubt it would be much. Again, put the bluray disk in the bluray player. Simpler, easier, and cheaper.

Actually, the Mac Minis I know of (other than one of mine) are used for desktop computers, not HTPCs. Mine is because I in this one case, like to play (yep, wasteful in this case). So, I am the person using technology for a purpose not really necessary, but I am just more for enjoyment than anything else. It's certainly not necessary by any means! The Mini makes more sense than an iMac (to me) for a home computer. My other minis are used for desktop, and, I run a Mac Mini server since I do programming and consulting work.

Anyway, to answer your question, I have no problem with people who want to have various features supported. If you want to lobby for bluray support, go ahead, but posting here does not accomplish that. Fill out an enhancement request. I would if I wanted it, one won't get anywhere, but lots might. And no I don't think Apple does everything perfectly or correct. Yes, it could well be as you say, arrogance, etc. I don't really know the reason, nor do you. I don't sit on in their meetings. I am sure they have a reason, whether it's a good one or not, no idea. If it's a bad one, then, maybe they will change one day, who knows. Certainly if millions rose up and said I would buy the computer if it had feature X, likely, it would.

And again, you also failed to follow the post I made detailing someone who has successfully bitstreamed from a 2010 Mini. Its NOT the hardware.

And, no, it IS HDMI. Clearly, you don't read avsforum,where there are TONS of posts from Windoze users of people with endless troubles with HDMI. And also people not using ANY HTPC. Yes, it IS HDMI. Some of the industries leading HDMI experts post there. Follow it. Hollywood has messed up with HDMI, not the computer industry.

It's been fun posting with you. I can see for you, why you'd want what you are asking for. We just have to disagree on the details. I hope I have clarified who I am not to you.

On other points, I think you twisted my words and meaning, but that's ok. I am sure you are just trying to make your point. Keep it up! Maybe if enough people had a common interest, they wouod lobby in the supported manner to get what they want.

I appreciate your feedback Sfatula. It's always nice to hear the other side, as well, someone with an intelligent point of view.

In summary:
1) I feel, as do many others, that Apple has missed the boat on the Mini. I also agree with your point of view. Too bad, so sad, it is what it is. I guess I wish that companies such as Apple, would be willing to look outside of their box to make a more complete product. I am sure that you have seen this with countless products, where the first revision, although good, is flawed in so many ways. You are left wondering when you look at the product, and go "I cannot believe with all the design time, manpower, and expertise, that they would have missed this"? How could this be. And then, to support your case, the next revision has the new features, once again confirming your first impressions.

2) Leaving feedback with Apple is a FRUITLESS endeavour. I say this, because, with my job, we have come across numerous issues where the Apple computer does not behave as advertised. We submit a ticket, and never, NOT ONCE, have we got a response, nor a fix. Case in point: When using Automator, if you create a workflow application where you tell the computer to open up Front Row at the end, you are left with an error message. This didn't happen in 10.5, but it is present in 10.6. After finally calling and speaking with one of the engineers, he was able to replicate the problem. This was 6 months ago! and still not resolved.

3) We wish to disagree on the integration of the Mini (or computer of any description) to the Family Home Entertainment System. To the masses, this seems like a daunting task, and that I agree with. This is indeed a niche area, but an area nonetheless. We integrate hundreds of these systems each year and we are just 1 company in Canada. Look us up at www.kwaudio.com. Their is a market, and I think you will agree that Apple is trying to dabble in it with the 2nd release of the Apple TV. And I will continually argue, that, because of their arrogance, the 2nd revision will not get the masses like they are hoping. Wait and see. If they want it to be a success like the iPod, then they may have to swallow some pride and not limit the machine. The audience that this device is going to attract, are the people that want choice. They want to be able to stream ALL of their content, not just ones that Apple deems important. This type of device is popping up everywhere. Names such as Roku, Western Digital, Netgear, Popcorn Hour, to name a few. These devices do way more. The problem however, is they have a terrible GUI Interface. This is Apple's expertise. If Apple would soften their stance and allow the user choice, they would dominate the market, because they have one thing the others do not; the ability to make it seamless to the masses. This strategy of locking out features is working with the iPhone. It will NOT work with this type of device.

4) I do not feel that Blu-ray is just cool to have. It is the present standard for viewing movies with the best video and sound possible. Apple, who has always been the leader in everything Media, whether it be iTunes, iPhoto, FinalCut Pro, etc., has poo-poo'd blu-ray out of sheer arrogance. I cannot tell you how many of my editing buddies are ****** about the absence of a Blu-ray drive and that is a completely different industry as mine. Cost is not the issue, the drives are virtually the same price, and believe me, if Apple contacted Samsung or LG, I am sure that they would be getting a very favorable price. We automate homes. Many of our clients use the 27" iMac as their kids bedroom TV/Computer mounted on a wall. Having the internal drive a Blu-ray player for the same cost is a no brainer. But instead, we have to integrate to a whole other level because of the arrogance of Jobs. I know you see this as no big deal, but to us, this is downright ridiculous.

5) HDMI is a *****, that I will agree. It is constantly evolving. That I agree. Do I wish it never came. Yes I do. But, the sad reality, is it is here, and it is the format until HDBaseT can make enough ground to actually become reality. With that said, it will work. Many companies have proven this. If you take a standalone Blu-ray player and connect it directly to your TV or through your AV Receiver, it works. This tells us that the format, if left in its simplest form will work. I think the problem comes when companies that do not understand the spec create products without the knowledge base. Case in point: Take any Yamaha, Marantz, Integra A/V Receiver and plug in a brand name Blu-ray player. It will work without issue. Now take an Arcam (higher end receiver, smaller company, less engineers), and throw at it an HDMI device, and you are rolling the dice. I would argue the problem is with the company not understanding the spec. I do agree, HDMI is the culprit to start with, because its spec is obviously confusing, but, it does work, when integrated properly.

6) I do blame the computer manufacturers and I do follow the AVS Forums. ATI's 5XXX series Video Cards will play Bitstream Audio no problem when partnered with ArcSoft's Total Media Theatre 3 Software. This is what we incorporate into our clients custom built HTPC's. It is possible, but too many companies that do not understand the spec are creating products that do not work.

7) The new Mac Mini is without a doubt, the sleekest, sexiest, mini computer at the present time. With only slight modifications to their overall focus, the machine would appeal to **** near everyone. For that I would ask "Why wouldn't Apple want this?" It comfortably runs Windows 7 via BootCamp, it is powerful enough for the masses, add a Blu-ray drive with a video card that works as a plug n play device, and you have just opened your product to an entirely new set of customers. Plus, you could incorporate the Apple TV interface in place of Front Row, and then, the person opting to spend the additional money on a Mac Mini wouldn't be forced to as well, pickup the Apple TV. If you ask me, this is a no brainer. One sleek device in a family's entertainment system and your done.

As always, I enjoy your comments.

Now you said what I wanted you to say, it's a niche area. But, possible to support as you say. I use Plex on the Mini for my purposes. Plex, btw, is now to be integrated into LG tvs.

Yes, properly implemented HDMI does work. But as you know, not all devices implement it properly. Then you have the joy of running whole house, and various other things that can make it way harder than it should be. People hook their new mini up to a AV receiver and expect it to work, not asking much. When it doesn't it's obviously the Minis fault. But, as you likely know, it may not be!

I have submitted bug reports that have been fixed. Not in a month or two mind you. It has to go through all the processes.

I am curious about one thing - tell me what software you use via Boot Camp, i.e. you said you loaded it on your 4 machines (I think), so, on each of those, what exactly do you use it for?

And why Boot Camp, why not simply use the freeware Virtualbox and not have to boot the machine?

I have not used VirtualBox so I can't comment. I have used Parallels & VMWare Fusion and my experience has been disappointing up to this point. Because these dedicated computers are for movie streaming only, I have no need to jump back and forth.

As far as my own setup is concerned, my house if fully automated. With that said, I have 9 rooms with Televisions which can access all my devices. I need the ability to be able to simultaneously stream multiple movies to different zones, which is why I use & need more than 1 computer. These computers are used ONLY as movie streamers, nothing else. If money wasn't an option, I would purchase the ultimate, the Kaleidescape System, but this is not in the cards.

All my DVD's & Blu-rays are stored on an 18TB NAS in my server room. I have ripped all of my Blu-rays as BDMV folders as i prefer the movie only option (plus it saves tons of space as I don't care about the special features - I don't care how the dinosaur foot was made). All of my DVD's are ripped via VIDEO_TS folders.

Prior to Blu-ray, I fitted my house with multiple Mac Mini's using Front Row. This works fantastic and Front Row's interface looks clean and polished. I have created Genre folders and edited high res cover art for all my DVD's. Once again, I only use the Mini's for streaming movies. This is one of my major gripes with Apple. I could have gotten away with multiple Apple TV's, but without hacking the device, the Apple TV does not support VIDEO_TS Folders, and I am not going to reconvert 500+ uncompressed DVD's to a lesser format. To make matters worse for me, the Apple TV's interface is much more polished than the forgotten Front Row application. So, what I am faced with is the need to purchase multiple Mac Mini's to stream my DVD's, and then purchase multiple Apple TV's to enjoy my Music, Photos, & the iTunes Rental Store. To add to my misery, I have now adopted the Blu-ray format. My Theatre is fitted with a 1080p Projector that shoots on a 120" Stewart Screen. Blu-ray is now a must. Am I starting to paint a picture of my frustration?

In the end, I have in my dedicated server room, 6 devices, some attached to an HDMI Switcher, some not, being distributed to all the Zones in my house, for the simple purpose of being able to access my Media. These devices are:
Mac Mini's x 3 (VIDEO_TS streaming)
Apple TV x 2 (Music, Photos, iTunes Rental Store Streaming)
Windows 7 HTPC x 2 (Blu-ray & VIDEO_TS Streaming)
Do you now see clearly my frustration? 3 devices needed to do 1 task properly. Moving forward:

I much prefer the way Apple's interfaces have always been designed, but when they decided to snub Blu-ray, I had no choice but to move over to Windows HTPC (I must stress only for Blu-ray playback. I much prefer the Apple TV for Music, Photos, and the iTunes Store).

I have also played with both XBMC & Plex and must say, I am surprised at how well these programs are reviewed, as during my time, with them, I had constant hangups, crashes, audio issues, etc. The programs just did not seem polished, especially when compared to Front Row. The GUI on Plex & XBMC is beautiful, but has many bugs (at least my dealings). I would DEFINITELY not recommend either of these to a novice. Although Front Row is not as feature rich, the movies just work! Always and without fuss! Once again, Apple can do it, and this is why I am angry.

Before I go into details of BootCamp, I don't know if you are familiar with www.kaleidescape.com, but this is the Ferrari of Media Streaming Movies (including the cost). Nobody does it better, not even close! The most novice user, we call this the "grandma factor" can pickup the remote and start playing it without any tutorial required. Because I have the pleasure of selling these systems to my higher clientele, this is what all other options are measured up against. To burn a movie, you simply insert disc into tray & the system does the rest. The kicker, not cheap by any stretch!!! Because they use their own proprietary Servers & NAS setups, their storage costs are ridiculous! To have a 4 Zone System with 18TB's of storage, would run you in the neighbourhood of $30,000 dollars! The key to this system is not the hardware, it is there beautiful interface. I have said all along, if Apple would integrate the Apple TV interface into their Mac Mini, & would open up the architecture to handle uncompressed DVD's & Blu-rays, they would be the kings in our industry. I am sure you can agree that the Apple TV's interface is clean, easy to understand, and aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

Now onto Boot Camp. When I build an HTPC for one of my clients, the setup that I do is as follows:
1) Windows 7 Professional OS
2) Purchase the application www.mymovies.dk (Costs $100 to unlock all the features). This application is a plugin that it used within Windows Media Center. It will become the interface for your movie collection.
3) Purchase the application ArcSoft Total Media Theatre 3 Platinum ($90). This is the Software DVD/Blu-ray player that will allow the playback of Blu-rays within the MyMovies app which is within the Windows Media Center.
4) Purchase AnyDVD HD from www.slysoft.com ($110 Lifetime License). This will remove the copyright protection from your DVD/Blu-rays and allow you to make a digital copy. This product is the best on the market. NO Apple software compares. It is constantly updated and it has never met a disc it can't remove protection from. Not a dig, but there is no Apple equivalent, period!

As far as software, that's what is required. As far as hardware, I make sure that I use the ATI 5 Series cards for Bitstream capability and HDMI Out. The rest of the configuration is pretty much standard.

MyMovies is a beautiful application, not as bulletproof as Kaleidescape, but very very good. My experience with it has been much better than Plex or XBMC. Many companies such as www.niveus.com and www.vidabox.com base their entire company around the mymovies software.

I hope that helps.

dosers,

can you PLEASE tell me how to get LPCM out of a MacMini? PLEASE......

I just wanted to say, as a person who cut the ''cable'' I would love to be able to buy a Mac mini to use with my HDTV....If it had bluray. I do not need or want bluray on my my Macbook Pro or Air but do want it in my living room with my 52'' plasma. I have been using a PS3 as the centerpiece of my living room but it has major limitations. I was really excited when i heard a new mac mini was coming out earlier this year with HDMI and possibly bluyray playback, but obviously it turned to disappointment. Several people say that streaming is the way of the future, keyword being future, I have not seen anything that somes close to the HD quality of bluray, be it streaming, cable or dish. Not only is the quality a factor but file size of true HD and 5.1 surround, on average a bluray movie is 15-30gb imagine the harddrive sizes that would be required to hold the 150 bluray movies I own. When I look at the mini the only thing I could see it as is family room, big screen computer device because after buying the mini and then a nice monitor it would be at the same price point as an imac. Ultimately I love my Mac, I'm just saying I ready to through more money at Apple for a Mac mini with bluray.

Jimaras,
I don't know about the Mac Mini. The reason why I found this post was to see if I should replace my current HTPC, which is a 27" iMac, 2.8 Core i7 connected to a 40" Sony (I accidentally broke the iMac screen, which is another story).
I bought a Monoprice mini displayport/optical-to-HDMI adapter. I have an external Blu-ray drive which I use to rip blu-rays to one of my 2 TB drives using makemkv.
Changing audio settings to SPDIF out and digital out, I have been able to get fantastic sound to my Yamaha receiver playing the .mkv files through VLC player.
Now, DTS-HD isn't supposed to be able to be played through optical because of bandwidth limitations, but VLC somehow passes it through, with my receiver indicating the DTS input.
Regardless of how VLC does it, the quality should be lower. However, I played the Batman Begins blu-ray on my PS3 (which is HDMI with DTS pass through), and then the .mkv version back to back on my Mac.
I honestly couldn't tell the difference in image or sound quality.
VLC does not, however, pass through Dolby Digital True HD, forcing you to run the older Dolby Digital spec. I haven't done any back to back tests with this, and I imagine there is a marked difference in the quality.
Will update when I do more tests later this week.
I will say, I am happy with the results. I can watch Hulu, Netflix, Youtube and ripped blu-rays all on one system (PS3 is cludgy here). Ripped blu-rays play immediately with no loading time and no FBI warnings or forced trailers.
I did have a Windows HTPC, but I kept getting interrupted during playback with "Antivirus software updated, computer restarting," or PowerDVD would crash ALL THE TIME, and Hulu always had problems. Much happier with the Mac and I can watch blu-rays I rent or borrow on my PS3.

Hi Guys,

Hopefully someone in this forum can help a on a simple problem. I have 100's of HD home movies in various format all successfully playing on my Macpro (i7 & 4GB RAM) through quicktime.

I also have a brand new mac mini (intel core duo 2.4ghz and 2GB RAM), but regrettably the HD movies play back jerkily and out of sync. SD movies are fine. The movies are stored on the hard drive (i am not streaming). I have 80Gb spare drive capacity.

Is this a hardware issue on the min mac i.e. processor/RAM/bus speed issue or due to something else. Whatever the cause, how do I fix the mac mini to play my HD movies?

Thanks.

What are the file formats of your HD movies? Have you tried any of these yet?

Perian + QuickTime Player
Movist
MPlayer OSX Extended