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27-inch / 27" iMac Random Shut down

SPECS:____________________________________________________________________________
• 27" 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 / 8gig / 1TB
• OS 10.6.3 (about to update to 10.6.4)
• All firmware updates have been applied according to software update
• 3 external drives: 1-320 gig 800fw / 1-TB USB 2.0 / 1-500gig USB 2.0

INFORMATION:____________________________________________________________________

I've been running with this configuration ( 3 extra drives) since approximately December with no issues. Out of the blue... only running Aperture and Safari - my iMac JUST SHUTS off- WITHOUTwarning. It acted as though I was running a MacBook and the battery going dead/asleep. That's how random and sudden it shut down - NO WARNING. I did have the iMac asleep for about three hours before coming back to it to start working again when it shut down, but it should have even been cool.

I only started reading around on the web to see of other incidents after this random shut down this evening, but I can't find anything specific. I've found A LOT of similar things - all seemingly related to "HEAT."

And heat seems to be a certain issue recently - in the last day or two. Today I noticed my top back side to be hot, which isn't uncommon, however, it became so hot I really wasn't able to keep my hand on the top back. I've also noticed A LOT of spinning beach balls, and lots of processor delay! Heat??

There are NO energy saver pref's set to automatically shut it down. The power was and is firmly set. There are no network settings, nor access to the iMac to have it shut down. It is not shared with anyone on the network.

SUMMARY:___________________________________________________________________________

• Today, I grabbed a couple temp / monitor widgets and am trying to watch the data. All components seem to be at/around/below 140 degrees F with ambient air at 77 degrees. I don't know numbers, but that all seems reasonable.
• Going to update to OS 10.6.4 (doubt that's it!!)
• I'm going to run the hardware test from my disc to see if ANYTHING. 8-p
• AND... I'm going to call Apple to set up a case. It's still full under warranty, and I have 2 more years of AppleCare on it. But there's been too many things pointing to hardware to call this a software issue.

I've dodged all the display issues with my iMac, but now.. I'm a bit hacked knowing how much I spent on this thing, with the initial DELAYS I went through, ordering it before it had even been released!

?? QUESTION ??_____________________________________________________________________

So, has anyone else been having this issue, heard of a solution, seen anything on Apple's website of known issues ??

Barry
( Grumbling bout my Mac)

Which one of twelve??, Mac OS X (10.5.6), ever hear Newton?!! ;-) One of those, too!

Posted on Jun 22, 2010 8:59 PM

534 replies

Jul 25, 2012 8:40 PM in response to tmolnar

@everyone: Believe me... I have SEVERAL "working files" as you call them. The latest has been in continual works for over two months with an assigned Teir 2 Apple tech with his direct phone number - although I KNOW it goes straight to voicemail when I ring him!! ;-p

Wish me luck. I'm done with this.

MichelPM

Level 10

81,306 points

Jul 25, 2012 8:48 PM in response to Berry with an A

Hey,

I am just trying to help you out.

I have been a Mac user for 20 years!!,

I have been on these forums and other Mac related forums since 2003.

I seen a lot of of stuff on these forums over time.

I am not an " Official" Mac Tech.

I am not a newbie and have troubleshooted and worked on many Macs over my time!

Most everyone here, including myself, are Apple/ Mac users and may not work for Apple.

I don't appreciate when help is given to be accused of something else, entirely.

I have only had my 2009 iMac for three months.

I purchased used through an Authorizsed Apple reseller.

Since I have gotten this, the heat issues have been bothering me.

I have never, ever had a Mac that runs as warm/hot as these new style iMacs.

IMO, the heat is not acceptable to me.

They just run too darn hot!!!!

This is why I keep suggesting it still maybe a heat related issue.

It maybe the overall iMac design that's an issue.

I don't think Apple engineers put enough venting/exhaust ports in this design and the software engineers don't have the internal fans running fast enough to keep the iMac's interior temps at an acceptable " working" temperature.

I feel your pain, but I am only trying to help a fellow Mac User as I have always done here.

Nobody else mentioned what I posted.

I posted to make sure bases were covered that no one else may or may not have seen.

Sometimes an issue can get complicated for no reason if it turns put to be something really simple that no one else has seen.

That's why I posted

Even Apple techs may miss something.

You mentioned you were an Apple Tech. Why can't you figure this out?

We're human! No one is perfect! People can miss things and make errors or mistakes!

With computers and YES, even with Apple computers, lots of things can cause issues.

Sorry I posted here at all.

Good Luck, You'll need it!

Jul 25, 2012 11:08 PM in response to Berry with an A

Berry: Well it is leading me to belive it is a hardware/software issue, just curious on what video card you have in your machine? I have a decked out Mini with the AMD Radeon HD 6630M and my DOA iMac also had a AMD card with 2 gigs, frankly I think it is a hardware issue and software combo problem. Machines that seemed to be shipped with Lion on them seem less problematic where as machines that were later upgraded to Lion seem to be having much larger problems. My iMac's with Tiger/Lepoard and even Snow Lepoard didn't have any issues till 10.6.8 after that it has basically sucked. Best of luck to you.

Oilersrock99: according to Apples policy after 3 visits if still under warr, they should replace it or give you an in-store credit. Well that's what I was told by my store.

As far as temps go there are a number of Apps you can use to track things, like CPU usage and temp. etc....

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/status/istatpro.html

and

smcFanControl

Jul 25, 2012 11:25 PM in response to Gandalf The Grey

Hey Gandalf -

Im up too late, finalizing some responses. I looked back at the beginning to see what video card I might have had, but I guess back then, early on with this issue, I hadn't thought to post that detailed of description. I might have on my repair what video card was pulled, but looking at my specs now, I show the card I now have installed is an ATI Radeon HD4850.

The card in the 27" iMac is going to be much different than in much of Apple's other things because it pushes 2560 x 1440. On my second display with a DVI cable I get 1680x1050. It could be better resolution with a better display than the cheap one I have connected.

I haven't really paid attention to the OS, other than to stay with Snow leopard, but I will say I've been running 10.6.8.

And I will clarify something again since you made note to Oilersrock99 - I can gaurantee those three "visits" you mentioned - have to be actual "hadware repairs." Software issues have NEVER been a qualification for any kind of hardware replacement. I know that for absolute certain from customer relations days.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but in one of oilersrock99's comments - he mentioned they reistalled his OS for him. He's actually lucky.

In the old days - had you taken a Mac in for some kind of work, and it ended up being software related, not hardware, especially just reinstall an OS - you would have gotten charged at least an hour of the tech's hourly rate, usually $75 - $95 bucks... and that EVEN if you were under warranty.

You can get away with it more now at an "Apple Store" but if you to to an AASP (authorized reseller) meaning independent business - you in all likelyhood WILL get charged a fee. Check your warranty card - that warranty covers ONLY hardware.

Jul 25, 2012 11:41 PM in response to MichelPM

TO THE FORUM THREAD:

I apologize this thread has gotten off task. We'll return you to your regularly scheduled, boring, unresolved, thread in a moment.

@MichelPM, dude, guy… (wow)

I just have to post this and be DONE. I'm a bit besides myself. Im sorry if you took offense to my posts, but yes… others HAVE posted about heat here. I don't know how you could say differently, because you said yourself you hadn't read the thread?

YES, heat is never acceptable when it comes to computers. I think no one will disagree on that. Heat is just a bi-product though of a separate action or cause - not the affect. If you turn on a light, the bulb generates light, and heat is the bi-product, but the heat didn't cause the bulb to glow. That little zappy thing called, electricity did.

Yes, I'm a long time owner /user of Macs as well. Apparently we're competing - but I've got ya beat with 25+yrs. My first Mac: 128k, and well… there were those"Apple II e" things. Ya got me beat on number of forum posts, though. I don't quite have that much time on ANY forum.

I won't flame anyone, but I will call a person out - on what they saying, especially when an aspect of an issue has been covered. People post misguided info, regardless if to gain forum points, or to be genuinely helpful, or simply to pontificate.

I offered the opportunity to provide valid, factual information from any of Apple's forum threads, or Apple's tech support doc library to show or explain why these random shut downs and restarts were due to heat, but instead I saw defensive remarks.

I wonder about motives because:

(1) The heat issue has actually come up in this thread, and other threads, and here, has been addressed.

(2) You yourself said - you had not read this entire thread, but you were still willing to post an… opinion… on something alredy addressed.

(3) Two people mentioned they've had issues from the time they got their Mac, debunking the heat from the "dust bunnies" theory.

Yes, I'll question an "opinion." Yes, I'll dispute the validity of a posted comment. That's what the forums are for. Someone spews an "opinion" (your words -IMO) without any validation - and you bet someone's going to question your position. Back up your "opinion" with facts or first hand knowledge of a resolution, but don't get bent out of shape and make patronizing or defensive remarks.

Blowing dust around isn't a solution, and nothing was provided in terms of showing any real info, Apple documentation, or even a personal experience towards a "real" resolution. Heat's been addressed - and the "dust bunny" theory disqualified in the last several posts. Don't' get bent over it though.

You can maintain it's a heat issue, but in doing so, you'll never find the cause. Yes, for the love of GOD - there is a heat ..."related" issue, but not the cause. You're just not getting that "Cause and Affect" thing, are you?

A computer will shut itself down to protect itself from heat, but it still doesn't explain what is causing the heat (and it's not dust bunnies) I've also had my iMac shut down randomly WITHOUT heat. So… how do you apply a heat theory to that? Maybe there's not enough slotted vents? Could be, but that wouldn't explain the other ump-teen thousand other fully functioning iMacs out there performing just fine.

And even so, this thread would still be about the 27" i7. Sure there are some commonalities between the 20" & 27" and some not. That's why this thread was specifically created to address the 27" i7. Did I mention - I created this thread to address issues I was having?

I mentioned I "use" to do consulting, but that wasn't to say I was a technician. That was an erroneous assumption. I know a whole lot about Macs and even do a lot of upgrades and actual repairs, but I'm not a technician, nor claim that knowledge. I also mentioned I worked directly for Apple Customer Relations team, but that's not technical either.

You seemed patronizing when you asked why I hadn't figured out this issue. Maybe in this particular situation - instead of being defensive, or patronizingly ask why I haven't figured out the issue - why not ask the actual Apple "engineers" that I've been indirectly working with - why THEY... haven't figured it out?

If you get an answer (other than heat) let me know.

But for now... I'm going to take some non-technical advice and approach this more aggressively from a customer service point of view. If I get anywhere with the different angle - I'll definitely post my experience of what happned.

Cheers all

Happy Mac'n

Jul 26, 2012 6:27 AM in response to Berry with an A

Berry,

If you have Apple Care you can take the unit in if it has an software issue and it should be covered, but the hardware issue you are correct 3 times and they look at a replacement and or credit, depends on individual basis etc...

My issue and the issues are all a tad different and some what related is the software in my case was causing the hardware failures. I think this is a huge issue and Apple is ingnoring it in most cases, I said flat out to the Apple Tech at the store infront of several people that everything with my iMac started after putting Snow Lepoard on it 10.6.8....

1.) Video freezes and the good old spinning color wheel

2.) Only way to get it back up was to to a hard stop and restart which causes all sorts of issues with the hardrive etc..

3.) They reinstalled my OS at the store as well and I was never charge nor should I be if I have Apple Care and I also talked to techs on the phone who had me reinstalled the OS and I wasn't charged.

In my case, this is a good guess, there is something in the Snow Lepoard 10.6.8 that started this whole thing and it was made worse with Lion. My Mac Mini right now does seem to work decent but I am getting some video issues from time to time, just curious if this is happen just with ATI/AMD video boards..

I am still just ****** because I got so tired of going around in circles trying to take care of this problem, I took the in-store credit and when in a different direction, I should have went back to a Mac Pro. 🙂

Jul 26, 2012 7:00 AM in response to Gandalf The Grey

@Gandalf -

You'r statement is assuming one has AppleCare. (which now sounds like what oilersrock99 has) I should have been more clear. I was referring to Apple's regular one year warranty. If you're going in under the 1 year warranty with an Apple product, you're incorrect; only the first 90 days of free phone support are covered, which covers those "software related issues."

Saying software issues is covered by Apple is a misnomer. If you call into Apple or go into Apple, initially addressing a software issue that turns out to be a hardware issue - the preceeding conversation is covered. If you get by without getting charged to address software issues - you've gotten lucky. However, with purchasing AppleCare as extra coverage, yes, it's different, but even then - AppleCare coverage varies widely among different Apple products.

And as I said - you can get away with A LOT more at an Apple Store, but go to an AASP, they will hold much more strictly to Apple guidelines and pollicies. But as in such of software issues... under normal warranty - you'll get charged, and as I said - NO MATTER Applecare or your regular first year of warranty - it's three hardware repairs before they'll even consider replacement.

The one thing I don't like about Apple Stores, AASP's, anything inside the Apple circle is - when someone's being AppleCare along with a new Apple product - they get told their warranty is being extended three years. It's a play on words I don't like. Your extended warranty is actually being extended TWO years. You automatically get ONE year along with the product. You extend the warranty (yes to 3) but you extend it ONLY two years. I've called rep's on it, and they admit to it. The only difference in the first year you get (free) with the product is the addtional free phone support.

my 2¢

Jul 26, 2012 7:43 AM in response to Berry with an A

"F" this!!!! I went to install Mountain Lion and now my Machine is a nice shiny brick!!!! This blows!!!!!!

Jul 26, 2012 8:07 AM in response to Gandalf The Grey

Whooa.. dude. SORRY! Really??

Maybe the download was bad/corrupted? I saw a lot of people having issues downloading the file. If you were having problems, too, maybe it got corrupted.

Did you do a time machine backup before install?

Jul 26, 2012 8:38 AM in response to Berry with an A

Berry: it got hung up, took memory out put in old memory unplugged everything and hit restart, now it is finally loading. I hate online updates, because if all the data doesn't transfer you can have some major issues.

Jul 26, 2012 9:22 AM in response to Berry with an A

Yeah, I have Apple Care. My previous purchase as a 15 inch MBP 3 years ago from Futureshop. I didn't get Apple Care, but they gave me the Futureshop 3 year warranty for free. The issue with the Apple Resellers is that when I did have to take my computer in because of a fan issue, they couldn't/didn't do anything in store. They took my computer, shipped it to the Apple techs in Ontario and had them fix the issue. The computer came back fine (Except that they had completely wiped the hard drive), but it was about a 3 week wait. The Apple Store turnover has been much quicker so far for me.

Aug 8, 2012 9:37 AM in response to Gandalf The Grey

MY FINAL REPLY (I hope)

So I took advice listed to me here in the last few comments. Told the Tier2 tech I was done with the trouble shooting route. Two years was enough.

Took my Mac to an Apple Store, explained, they looked through the notes and said right away they wanted to replace it. I know the Tier 2 tech's notes, emails and comments most likely helped, not to mention that Apple engineers couldn't figure it out. The gal went to the back and came back with bad news though... I suspected I had hung myself when I essentially got two repairs done at the same time - counting only as one. BLAH!

They still kept it and were going to look at it. That was on a thurs. I meant to take it on Wed because I thought this might go into the weekend. Last Monday, I got a call saying they were going to replace it. (YEAH!!) I imagine they took into consideration how may parts had been replaced... but I didn't ask! I'll have the latest i7, as it should be - as I had the top of the line i7 when I got mine.

I got my 16 gigs ram back, and still got them to upgrade at no cost because it's what I originally purchased. That was a little bit of an argument I had to make, because an AASP upgraded it not Apple when I originally purchased it because at the time APple was so far behind on orders for these. I got an upgraded video card at my cost, however, they've not charged me yet. I'll be able to purchase AppleCare and get back my remaining amount left on AppleCare back as a refund.

I just talked to the store and it's actually already in the hands of FedEx, so I need to call and find out WHERE it is at in the shipment process because the store didn't even have a tracking number. I don't know how they couldn't - but they don't. FedEx should know with my address though.

So... there it is. This was my ultimate resolution. In a sense... kind of sad. I hope to those still having issues get through them.

Aug 8, 2012 9:47 AM in response to Berry with an A

Thats good to hear Berry. I hope it all works out and the new iMac treats you well. I'm still stuck in limbo dealing with the phone guys and the store guys at the same time. Yesterday I got an e-mail telling me that the senior advisor I had been talking with for the past 3 weeks is "Currently out of the office...with an unknown return date." So I had to call the support line and talk to a new guy. I had to fill him in on everything that's been going on, since the notes didn't cut it and I told him that this is a business computer and I don't have the time to spend 5-6 hours per week troubleshooting the computer - that's why I paid $300 for Applecare. I told him we are leaving on Friday to shoot an out of town wedding and then heading straight on vacation after that for 12 days. I told him I'm dropping the computer off at the Applestore here in town and the engineers can talk directly with the store and they can make any changes directly. They'll have the computer for 12 days and I told him that I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to do all the data captures they want, pinpoint the issue and fix it.

I've been running on the Apple factory 4gb of ram for the past 10 days and it's brutal. I'm no longer able to burn dvd's, and Time Machine no longer recogznises my Time Capsule. I've also a random shutdown to go in with my daily random restarts, and my screen still does a weird black flicker thing - although it doesn't affect anything.

Crossing my fingers!

tmolnar

Level 1

10 points

Aug 8, 2012 10:01 AM in response to Berry with an A

Berry: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

I hope the new machine works well.

Oilersrock99:

I hope also that you get resolution that is entirely to your satisfaction.

Most of us are loyal Apple users, but sometimes you have to remind them that we can't just be taken for granted and that if they are a company with integrity, as they state, they need to treat us fairly and with diligence.

If you are like me, you supported them and bought their products when all signs suggested they were "cooked".

Be firm, be courteous, but be insistant.

best to you all.

Aug 31, 2012 4:27 PM in response to Berry with an A

Hey Barry. Just wanted to let you know that after leaving the computer with the Apple store for 10 business days while on vacation, they could not replicate any of the issues I was having - specifically the random restarts.

Within 24 hours of having it back at home, it restarted. They next suggested moving the computer to a different room in our place, which I did. Same issues persisted.

They then suggested buying a UPS and trying it with that - which we did today and are now going to test it over the next week or so.

If we get the same issues happening the store told me they will replace the computer - after just one hardware repair - but 4 trips and 23 days in the Apple store. I think they're as fed up with the machine as I am.

27-inch / 27" iMac Random Shut down