AirPort Extreme Extending AirPort Extreme Network

My question for the group experts is do I need to reconfigure the two AirPort Extremes since they will now be able to talk to each other using the power lines instead of WiFi?

No, on your "main" AirPort Extreme.

Yes, on the "remote" AirPort Extreme.

Here is how to do it without all the technical jargon.

Leave the main AirPort Extreme alone. No action is needed on this device.

Move the remote AirPort near the main AirPort

Use a short, spare Ethernet cable.......any length will do for the setup......to connect from one of the three LAN <--> ports on the main AirPort to the WAN "O" port on the remote AirPort.

Power up the remote AirPort and let it run for a minute or two.

Then, hold in the reset button on the remote AirPort for 7-8 seconds and then release. Allow a full minute for the remote AirPort to restart to a slow, blinking amber light status.

Click on the WiFi menu at the top of the Mac's screen and look for a listing of New AirPort Base Station

Just under that listing, click directly on AirPort Extreme

When you click on AirPort Extreme, that will start up the AirPort Utility setup "wizard". The wizard will take a few seconds to analyze the network, then display a screen that looks like the example shown below, except that you will see your network name and devices pictured.

Type in a name that you want to call the remote AirPort Extreme

Click Next

Watch the next screen carefully to confirm that the remote AirPort is being set up to extend using Ethernet. This will confirm that the setup wizard has picked up the Ethernet connection between the AirPorts and will automatically apply the correct settings to the remote AirPort

When you see the message of Setup Complete, click Done

Now power off the remote AirPort and disconnect the short spare Ethernet cable that you used for the setup and move the AirPort to the remote location where it will be needed and connect it to the powerline adapter at that location. The Ethernet cable from the powerline adapter connects to the WAN "O" port on the remote.

Power up the remote AirPort Extreme and let it run for a full minute. If the powerline adapters are functioning correctly, so too will your remote AirPort Extreme be functioning correctly.

You now have what is known as a "roaming network".

Most definitely need to reconfigure the extender.. you don't need to touch the main base.. but the extender MUST NOT BE USED setup to extend by wireless.. If you plug it in by ethernet with that setup it will cause a loop and crash the network..

To extend upon LaPastenague's answer, the "extender" base station should be set up in "bridge mode" in the network settings in Airport Utility, then Create a wireless network, not extend, with the exact same parameters as the original network (assuming the first AX is in DHCP+NAT mode)

So Modem -> 1st AirPort WAN port -- LAN port -> PowerLine ------ PowerLine -> 2nd Airport WAN port.

Create, don't extend wireless network, identical settings.

The problem is that they won't be able to talk to each other using the power lines instead of WiFi, as much as talk to each other using the power lines in addition to WiFi. Which route should they use? Switches get real confused about this kind of stuff.

Do you guys all concur that Bob Timmons' method would produce as good as is possible "Powerline to Powerline" setup that would minimize speed loss?

You have the correct setup if you use Apple's setup "wizard", so you don't have to worry about what settings like "Bridge Mode" to use. If you want to try to change settings manually, I'll let one of the other guys go through that for you.

The best results in terms of performance would be to use a regular Ethernet cable between the AirPorts, since there is zero speed loss over Ethernet up to 325 feet or about 100 meters.

Powerline will not usually produce the same results, speed wise, as using a regular Ethernet cable, but if you cannot run the cable, then that is almost always the better option over trying to extend a network using wireless only.

Results with powerline tend to be "iffy". For example, one brand that I tried in the past lost about half of the speed of the 100 Mbps connection, while another cheaper brand allowed a signal of about 80 Mbps. No way to know in advance how well powerline will work for you in your home until you try things out in your home.

The bottom line......the speed at your remote AirPort will be as good as the powerline products allow. If you can get 75-80% of the speed at the remote AirPort as you can get at the "main" AirPort with the powerline products, I would call it a day.

Follow up with a bit more information about why you cannot rely on the speed claims made in the advertising or product specifications of the powerline products.

The speed claims are alway based on a "test" where both powerline adapters are on the same electrical circuit. Unfortunately, very few users find that their "main" AirPort and "remote" AirPort are actually on the same electrical circuit in the house.

Instead, the signal from the powerline adapter at the "main" AirPort must go all the way back to the electrical panel or circuit box for the home, then "hop" to another circuit and then go all the way to the location that the "remote" AirPort will be using.

As you can imagine, there can be significant speed loss simply because of the distance involved in the installation. Add to that the fact the signal must "hop" from one circuit to another and you have the potential for more speed loss in that transition. Of course, the nice advertising does not tell you about things like this, so some users have difficulty understanding why they are experiencing significant speed loss with their powerline adapters.

If a powerline adapter happens to be located near a refrigerator or air conditioner, that can create some significant "noise" on the AC lines that will can affect the speed and stability of the powerline connection.

Finally, no two installations are ever the same, which would explain why powerline products that did not work very well at my home worked pretty well at my neighbors home.

I have decided to incorporate two TP-Link TL-PA9020 V2

They are good units.. about best available. They are advertised as AV2000 ie in some mythical world they can attain 2000Mbps over power lines.. that will never happen.

The manufacturers have allowed the marketing department free reign. Mine is bigger and better than yours!! To prove it they fish around for the biggest numbers available.. Same as wireless btw.. which is also inflated numbers.

Test it using ethernet connection at each end.. sometimes one power point gives much better speeds than another so it is worth measuring over a few different points. TP-Link also have a utility (PC only of course). That will give you link speeds. The indicator lights on the outside being only a very rough guide.. I would expect real world throughput of around 300Mbps in one direction and rather less in the other.. assuming everything is working well.

It is only a major concern if it is well below your internet connection speed.. in which case you should really spend the money for ethernet in wall connection.

Oh, I had completely forgotten about the existence of that setup option, definitely would be the way to go, if you were presented with it. I think the protocol used by the base stations to detect each other is out of band though, so I wonder if it will work through this setup. It doesn't through a switch, or even a bridge

Were I to play the devil's advocate re: the claimed "peak" data rates, I might argue that the numbers do have their basis in reality, if a conveniently creative perspective on it ;)

I am wondering if everything will play nice together though.. I hope it works out, but I have one AirPort Extreme that will shut itself off every 6 hours if plugged into some surge protectors. It's freaky how consistent it is. What's all the more infuriating is that another base station, same model, will stay on just fine plugged into the same surge protector. Gave up trying to figure out what could possibly be going on a long time ago and decided it was haunted, but yeah, I would run cable unless whole sheets of drywall had to come off or something..

I think the protocol used by the base stations to detect each other is out of band though

Not quite. If the setup "wizard" detects an Ethernet connection between the two AirPorts, it will set up the remote AirPort to "extend using Ethernet". The wizard reads the wireless network name, security, password, etc on the main AirPort and uses that information to configure the remote AirPort automatically in Bridge Mode. All the user has to do is name the remote AirPort, the wizard takes care of everything else.

On the other hand, if there is no Ethernet connection between the AirPorts the wizard will assume that the user is going to use wireless to extend the network. So the wizard reads the wireless network name, security, password, etc on the main AirPort and uses that information to configure the remote AirPort automatically in Bridge Mode. All the user has to do is name the remote AirPort, the wizard takes care of everything else.

You could do all of this manually of course, but I think you would agree that it would be easier for most users to simply name the remote AirPort and let the wizard take care of everything else than try to figure out what settings to use on the remote AriPort and apply them manually.

It doesn't through a switch, or even a bridge

Not sure what you mean here. An unmanaged Ethernet switch is transparent on the network. My "main" AirPort connects to an 8 port Ethernet switch. Two remotes in other parts of the house each connect back to the Ethernet switch using Ethernet cabling. I set up both of the remote AirPorts using the setup wizard by connecting them to the switch, not directly to the main AirPort.