2018 15" MBP + Synology rt2600AC = super-slow 802.11ac. 13Mpbs, MCS=0

I have a 4-month old 2018 Macbook Pro and a 1-month old Synology rt2600AC router purchased to replace an aging Time Capsule (bulletproof for the past 4+ years...).


With the Time Capsule, connecting to 802.11ac, I typically see speeds of 780Mbps+ in my usual work spots at home, with indicated speeds topping out at 1,300MBps when I'm in the same room as the TC. Solid MCS #'s.


The Synology behavior begins the same but with a bit more range, but then the TX speed will fall to like 13 or 14 Mbps with an MCS of 0. It's barely enough to surf, let alone RDP or move files. Rebooting either the MBP or the RT fixes it temporarily, as does bouncing the RT's wifi (changing the channel, disabling, etc). Sometimes the signal is "good" for an hour or two, then drops. Other times it won't even last 5 minutes from a reboot. This started with the TC shut down, but with the issue I've put it back into service (bridged off the RT), and still see the same behavior. I've tried all the settings in the RT, manually changed channels, separated 2.4 & 5 channels, disabling all the extra services in the RT, not using connected USB 3 devices, moving routers around the house, etc. Nothing seems to help.


Here's the AP performance when connected to my TC (Altair), with the MBP sitting on the same desk with the rt2600ac and TC just 2 feet away.


Same chart, the blue/green line blips are flipping to "Polaris", the rt2600AC...

See how it starts at 1300 then quickly plummets to 13? No change in quality or signal.


I don't see any other 5Ghz networks competing either (overlaying Polaris is {hidden}, a second network the rt2600AC broadcasts for Mesh stuff that I can't disable...)

So, Apple-folks. Has anyone ever run into this problem before? I've opened a trouble-ticket with Synology, as they have had lots of issues with firmware updates lately. But the fact that I haven't observed the behavior on my old 2014 MBP or any other Apple devices at home (iPhones, iPad Pros) has me concerned it's a problem with the 2018. But then again, no similar issues on the 2018 MBP with my TC, the Cisco enterprise stuff at work, Wifi networks at hotels, or with Belkin, Netgear, & GoogleWifi routers at other family members' homes over the holidays.


Anyone?

MacBook Pro w/ Touch Bar (2018 or later)

Posted on Jan 28, 2019 10:00 AM

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27 replies

Jan 28, 2019 2:48 PM in response to Delta5

Apple does recommend using MU-MIMO, so I've left that on. I believe the TC had that too.


I do not believe the apple card is MU-MIMO in the laptop.. so it will really only affect connections at the router.. and we have seen it fail rather badly in lots of different brands.. The TC is probably MIMO but it is old design.. >6 years.. well before Mu-Mimo came along.


I set my synology to 40mhz and chose a DFS channel to be as far out of interference as possible.


Link speed is exactly half what I would expect so that seems correct at 600Mbps.



This is the chart from wireless diagnostics.. changing from 80 to 40mhz.. the computer immediately changes band.. so the low section is connected to the 2.4ghz.. and then when the 5ghz returns I was able to reconnect at the end.



Though if the solution is no 80mhz then the Syno will get returned as then the TC remains the better option since it's done 5/80 reliability for years.


You will certainly need to return the Synology.. I was recommending them as perhaps the best replacement for the TC and it is very sad.. . that it has gone downhill with the change to mesh firmware.. a change that should have been made reversible.


At the same time.. the TC is going to need replacement at some point.. Tesserax and I have both gone Ubiquiti with Unifi AP which has given me no trouble.. but it is a more expensive and time consuming upgrade than the more domestic type Synology.

Jan 29, 2019 6:28 AM in response to LaPastenague

I've tried SmartConnect both on and off before, it made no difference. Same behavior observed on the dedicated _5G SSID.


I tried setting 5Ghz to just 20/40 and it had the effect that the MBP would no longer even connect at 5Ghz! It would only connect to the 2.4 at 200-300Mbps, which is fine for 2.4. When I bumped it back to 20/40/80 or 20/40/80/160 or even 80+80, the MBP would connect at 5Ghz again, always at 80Mhz. At one point it seemed reliable on the 80+80 setting, the MBP spending a good couple of hours pushing files around at MCS 8/9 at 1066/1300 Mbps with decent real transfer speeds. But then it fell off a cliff again. As always, resetting the 5Ghz band by manually moving the channel or changing the width would fix it for 15-30 minutes.


Did a factory restore on the router. Set it back up again, sticking close to the defaults, and it seemed fine for about an hour. Then it did it again. Bah. Disconnected 2600 & reconnected the trusty old TC as the sole router+AP. Zero issues the rest of the evening, as it has been the past 4+ years; rock-solid 5Ghz @ 866-1300Mbps from the normal workspaces in my home.


I've spent 3 weeks fighting with this thing. I'm done. Synology has ignored my support tickets. There's either some strange defect in the router/firmware, there's some defect in my 2018 MBP's Wifi, or there's some unknown source of interference in my home that only affects Synology 5Ghz + 2018 MBP connections. I don't know which it is, but of those three, the easiest option is to just return the Synology. Today's the last day of my return window so that's what it shall be.


Guess I'll plow on with the TC! Just hope the darn thing never dies, lol!


Good advice on the Ubiquity gear. I've heard good things. The Ampli-Fi series of mesh routers was my next choice if the Synology didn't work out, which I believe are by Ubiquity. I may give those a shot....

Jan 28, 2019 2:34 PM in response to LaPastenague

Yes, running the latest/greatest SRM 1.2-7742 Update 5. In my ~1 month of ownership I've learned quite a bit about Synology Firmware SNAFU's from browsing their boards. It's quite troubling.


Apple does recommend using MU-MIMO, so I've left that on. I believe the TC had that too. But I had the same thought last week, disabled, made no difference.


Agreed on the 40mhz trial and the factory reset. Hadn't tried that yet. I'm up for trying anything just to see what kind of affect it has. Though if the solution is no 80mhz then the Syno will get returned as then the TC remains the better option since it's done 5/80 reliability for years.


Good ideas guys, I appreciate it!

Mar 19, 2019 7:40 PM in response to TeddyZh

I hope it works for you. I didn't notice any improvement with disabling MU-MIMO. I messed with DTIM, lowering from 4 *seemed* to help a little, but didn't resolve the problem


I found another thread that has interesting information... https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8531525

Check out the latest stuff, especially if you have an Apple Watch. Apparently a few have had success in disabling the "unlock with Apple Watch" functionality on their MBP's. Something about the type of wifi connection used for that may be flaky on the new chipsets.


Meanwhile, this Unifi gear has been flawless. My home network & wifi has never been as fast and reliable.



Jan 28, 2019 10:48 AM in response to Delta5

Other than your operating in a very busy Wi-Fi environment, a couple things stand out that makes me suspect of some of the readings that you are getting with this tool.


  • First having a MCS value of 0, in both cases, basically tells me that the wireless connection between your MBP and either router, is only using a single spatial stream ... not three or four as indicated.
  • Also, since the connections are on different channels, with the higher (132) channels at a higher transmitter power, we're not looking at an "apples to apples" comparison.
  • Finally, since you don't have a spectral analysis over-layed on the charts, we can't tell if some other form of Wi-Fi interference to be a culprit here.


If you are actually experiencing poor network data transfer rates with the Synology, but not the TC, it will be interesting to see if Synology concurs with your findings. Unfortunately, I don't have either the Synology nor a 2018 MBP to verify your results. What I do have available are a TC and the WiFi Scanner app running on my 2010 MBP, connected at 802.11n with values inline with what I would expect.

Jan 28, 2019 12:26 PM in response to Delta5

FWIW, you may find this MCS Index table helpful:


At least, it should give you a better understanding on what these values represent as far as the connection between the client and the wireless router or access point is concerned. As you will see the higher the number, the better.

Jan 28, 2019 11:16 AM in response to Tesserax

I forgot to mention it, but the "MCS Index: 0" reported in that software above appears to be a bug. It always reports that for any 5Ghz connection on my 2018 MBP. MCS Indexes I'm reporting above are from the OSX Wifi Diagnostics.


Here's a screen grab from right now showing what I mean (with the MBP operating perfectly against the RT @ 1300Mpbs).


The MCS Index in the OSX diagnostics report 0 or 1 when the slow connection is happening.


I have tried channels all over the spectrum, manually setting the TC & RT away from eachother, even forcing them to overlap to see if it's worse. From the lower 36/54 groups to the higher 132 and even the DFS's. Changing the channel disconnects Wifi, which does usually temporarily resolve the issue. But it always returns. I've not observed any difference in length of "good" connection.


The software I'm using doesn't generate a spectral analysis, sorry. My environment is a small-town subdivision. I can see other faint 2.4's, as above. 99% of the time nothing shows up on 5Ghz. Above is a rare 1% time where a whiff of that "Bookend-5G" shows up, but it's very faint. Doesn't seem relevant to speed drop-outs, as above, it's rocking 1300 and that one is fainly visible.


I've had WiFi routers for well over a decade in my current home, relying on 5Ghz since I bought the TC, 4+ years ago. I've never had any issues with the TC doing this. I briefly tried other routers (Google WiFi, Orbi) last year when thinking about upgrading and none exhibited the same behavior. Nothing in my household that I'm aware of has changed in terms of interference-generating things. No new microwaves, DECT phones, satellite, etc. And no other devices seem to be acting strangely either (though none are tasked with moving as much data across WiFi as my MBP).

Jan 28, 2019 6:12 PM in response to Delta5

I am not entirely sure what default setting for smart connect is but ensure it off.


This shows smart connect on.. lots of routers are having issues with this setting.. they don't actually have the smarts yet to make good decisions about band to join.. I think you are likely off.. as once you change the names for the 5ghz band it will no longer smart connect.



So far up for a few hours and behaving... very stable.. !!


Jan 28, 2019 11:24 AM in response to Delta5

Thanks, that makes more sense. The fact that the MCS is dropping to 1 or 0 does indicate an issue, as you well know. Again, if it's only happening with the Synology router, you're on the right track by contacting Synology for a potential resolution.


Remember that the Tx Rate is an instantaneous value based on the connection "quality," not the actual bandwidth speed as wireless networks operate at half-duplex.


One thing to note. Do you see the MCS "drop-offs" at random or at specific intervals? The former could indicate a device (microwave or wireless phone) operating nearby; the latter something in the environment that is operating periodically causing interference. Just trying to give you some ideas, just in case there is nothing amiss with the Synology router itself.

Jan 28, 2019 12:02 PM in response to Tesserax

Great points, thanks for the detail on the Tx. I wasn't aware of that. I figured it was actual bandwidth. I knew MCS was an indication of potential quality/bandwidth.


I've been trying to pay very close attention to what's going on in the household with the drop offs. As far as I know, nothing interesting is happening. And like today, the MBP is sitting at home in an empty house, yet when I just remoted in it's showing slow speeds again. It almost seems like there's some sort of power-saving feature that's idling-down the connection when not needed but not able to resume again when demand is there. I've tried resetting PRAM and SMC, no affect.

Jan 28, 2019 12:28 PM in response to Delta5

Just weird because my other Apple OSX machines, a 2011 Macbook Air, 2011 MacMini, and 2014 Macbook Pro all seem fine with 5Ghz when literally sitting right next to the 2018 on the same table. And the MBP seems perfectly fine with other AP's. And sometimes my MBP is fine for hours on end with the Synology. Then it'll degrade and sometimes it won't regain speed until I do a full reboot of MBP or the Synology. One or the other bounces it back up. Occasionally I've seen it come back on it's own, but it's very rare (or I don't have enough patience...).


Only other thing I see is that when it's slow, the Synology diagnostics show the MBP's connection as "Marginal", the lowest of its three designations with a 100-200Mbps connection speed that doesn't jive with the MBP. So it "knows" the MBP is struggling. Upon reboot the same info bounces back to "Good" or "Excellent", showing the high 866+Mbps connection.

Jan 28, 2019 12:40 PM in response to Tesserax

Very interesting, especially the 802.11n 20Mhz No SGI Data Rate column. 13, 26, 39, 52 - I've seen the OSX TX Rate bounce around on those exact numbers when it's stuck in the super-slow mode. Sort of suggests the MBP + Syn connection is somehow "stuck" on 802.11n in just that 20Mhz slot, rather than 802.11ac 80Mhz like indicated.



Jan 28, 2019 12:59 PM in response to Delta5

I have a Synology RT2600AC but none of my Apple computers is new.. or even vaguely new.


A friend has a 2018 MBP so I will see how he goes with it.. cannot really get results for you for a day though.


How quickly is the 5ghz signal dropping to very slow speed.. the apple diagnostic chart has no time scale on the X axis. Something like 5-10min on average?? Your first post mentions it is variable.. so it can last up to an hour or so ..


Here is an odd thing to try.. remove one antenna from the set.. run it with just 3 antenna.. and cycle the gap in position and move each antenna in and out of use.. I have seen a bad antenna do strange things.

Jan 28, 2019 1:08 PM in response to LaPastenague

Yeah, no scale on the X axis, sorry. Full scale above is about 30 minutes. Sometimes it will drop within seconds, other times it will stay up for hours. I purposefully left the MBP on all night, idle, and the connection was still 1300 mbps this morning. I remoted into home around 10am and it had fallen to 13Mpbs. Recycled my Wifi and it returned at 1300. Still at 1300 now. It almost seems like *using* the network is what pushes it into slow mode. Very often it seems to fail just as I'm starting to move some big file across my network or some big Time Machine delta. Have your buddy try moving files around your network, see if that causes it.


Interesting idea on the antenna. I'll give that a shot.


No word from Synology yet...

Jan 28, 2019 1:41 PM in response to Delta5

Very interesting, especially the 802.11n 20Mhz No SGI Data Rate column.

Not knowing how familiar you are with SGI (Short Guard Interval), but it purpose, when available, is to help avoid signal loss due to multi-path effects Not all wireless routers incorporate this feature. However, it is commonly used for the 802.11n or 802.11ac radio modes. You don't want it enabled for mixed modes, e.g. 802.11g/n, for example.


Also be aware, that some wireless access point support multiple channel-width settings. For example, you can see widths at 20, 40, 80, & even 160 MHz as you saw in the chart I provided you. Keep in mind that larger wides does increase overall bandwidth, but decreases range.


So for example, if you want the most range for both radios, use 20 MHz for both, if they are configurable for your router. If bandwidth is more important, use 40 (2.4 GHz) & 160 MHz (5 GHz), respectively.

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2018 15" MBP + Synology rt2600AC = super-slow 802.11ac. 13Mpbs, MCS=0

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