Piano midi recording in Logic Pro X - vibration / piano key noise help

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Level 1

8 points

Piano midi recording in Logic Pro X - vibration / piano key noise help

I am having problems with vibration / underlying piano key noise on my piano to Logic recordings and wondering if anyone might have any idea of the cause or what I'm doing wrong.

I am using Logic Pro X, and have a Korg concert digital piano hooked up via MIDI to USB cable into an iMac OS 10.13.6

In Logic Pro X, I select 'new from template,' then 'empty project,' then 'software instrument' and 'create.' Then I change the default sound from 'Classic electric Piano' to either a Steinway Grand or Bosendorfer Grand piano and record myself playing on my digital piano through the MIDI to USB connection (default ESX24 settings without any changes anywhere on my part).

The recordings have an underlying vibration noise when the piano keys are hit, mostly on chords and especially when played at high volumes / maximum expression. It's most obvious in the C3 / C4 octave and above. Almost a rattle type sound under the piano keys. Sounds worst when recording is played through Soundcloud / Spotify / iPhone, with high volume; it ruins the recording.

I have tried two separate MIDI to USB cables in case that was the cause but they are both the same (currently a Roland UM-One mk 2). Recording as AIFF 24 bit and buffer size 256. I have the problem on whichever Logic piano sound I choose to play with, but it's especially bad on the Steinway options.

Example soundcloud link attached - just a few chords on the piano to illustrate (https://soundcloud.com/user-589924713/audio-sample/s-5fzEW)

if anyone has the slightest idea what's going on, I would be so grateful for any clues! Thank you :-)

iMac 21.5", 10.13

Posted on Feb 11, 2019 4:13 AM

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Answer 1

Pancenter

Level 6

14,788 points

Feb 11, 2019 8:32 AM in response to CarolineMP

What are you using to monitor the sound, headphones, speakers? Listen with at least two devices.

There's a considerable amount of reverb, and it sounds like the reverb has a delay before it comes in so I hear a secondary splash.

The delay setting is found on the Reverb, sometimes called, "Initial Delay" or "Pre-Delay" and is usually between 10-23ms. it's the time before the reverb becomes active. How does it sound with reverb and compression disabled.

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Answer 2

fuzzfilth

Level 3

710 points

Feb 11, 2019 3:45 PM in response to CarolineMP

I'm not getting any distortion using the same pianos, with velocities up to 127. Can you zip and upload the short Logic project of your demo sound file so we can have a look at it ? Just the Logic project, no samples.

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Answer 3

fuzzfilth

Level 3

710 points

Feb 12, 2019 1:06 AM in response to CarolineMP

>Switching off the ESX24 does remove the issue but then of course it's no longer sounding like a grand piano.

What does it sound like then ? Actually you should not hear anything when the only (?) sound source is switched off.

> I hadn't specifically added any reverb

There is a *healthy* amount of reverb present

> I think one of the dials on the ESX24 is adding reverb

There is no reverb section in EXS24. I begin to think that you are hearing two sound sources and that EXS is innocent here.

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Answer 4

CarolineMP Author

Level 1

8 points

Feb 11, 2019 3:29 PM in response to Pancenter

Thank you so much for the helpful comments...

I hadn't specifically added any reverb (when I do, it would be via the 'Reverb' 'Space Designer' but that is currently off). So I think one of the default dials on the ESX24 screen is adding reverb. Taking the default Steinway Grand Piano set-up as the example, on the channel strip I can switch off 'Channel EQ' 'Compressor' and 'Tape Delay' and I can still hear the noise issue. Switching off the ESX24 does remove the problem, but then I'm without the grand piano sound. I need to play more with the ESX24 button as I'm not familiar with it yet.

I have been using headphones and (albeit basic) speakers. The vibration noise sounds considerably worse through mobile phones and also when played through platforms like Soundcloud / YouTube / Spotify where loudness normalisation is probably occurring as well. My music is solo piano so as it's the only instrument I'm after a nice grand piano sound. Still a lot to learn! Thanks for your great advice.

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Answer 5

CarolineMP Author

Level 1

8 points

Feb 12, 2019 1:04 AM in response to fuzzfilth

Amazing - thank you...

Here is the Logic project for the demo sound file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmrsw34h601nhn7/Audio%20Sample.logicx.zip?dl=0

I've switched the Bus off now as well - I can still hear some rattle / vibration underneath the chords.

Here is also a 2nd sample file (just 15 bars of chords) which was recorded with only the ESX24 on in the first place (I switched off Channel EQ, Compressor, Tape Delay & Bus buttons before pressing record): https://www.dropbox.com/s/56rm6s52fyo5z1l/Audio%20Sample%202.logicx.zip?dl=0

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Answer 6

Pancenter

Level 6

14,788 points

Feb 11, 2019 4:08 PM in response to CarolineMP

Do you hear it in this recording, it's the Steinway?

I turned off the Bus send to the reverb, as well as all theinserts. Using only the EXs24.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/akxqg9rjfveweza/Wav1.wav?dl=0

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Answer 7

CarolineMP Author

Level 1

8 points

Feb 12, 2019 1:06 AM in response to Pancenter

I don't hear it on your recording, Pancenter. It sounds great!

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Answer 8

fuzzfilth

Level 3

710 points

Feb 11, 2019 6:50 AM in response to CarolineMP

A few things to know/check:

The MIDI cable is fine, it just transmits which keys are hit how hard
Is that noise present while you Bounce the master file ?
If you play the initial MIDI recording through theEXS (no other plugins), does anything clip on either the channel or the StereoOut ?
If you add the plugins (EQ, Dynamics, Reverb) one by one, when does the noise start to appear ? From the very last chord, my impression is that you're clipping the reverb...

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Answer 9

CarolineMP Author

Level 1

8 points

Feb 11, 2019 3:04 PM in response to fuzzfilth

Thank you so much for the helpful comments... It appears to be something happening on the ESX24 - you're right it sounds reverb related. I didn't think it was related to clipping because the DB level is no-where near 0 on my recordings and the issue is still present on bounced recordings where a true peak limiter of -2 was set as well.

Taking the default Steinway Grand Piano set-up as the example, I can switch off 'Channel EQ' 'Compressor' and 'Tape Delay' and I can still hear the issue. Switching off the ESX24 does remove the issue but then of course it's no longer sounding like a grand piano. I hadn't specifically added any reverb (when I do, it would be via the 'Reverb' 'Space Designer' but that is currently off). So I think one of the dials on the ESX24 is adding reverb. I'll keep trying...thank you, you've definitely pointed me in the right direction! :-)

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Answer 10

Pancenter

Level 6

14,788 points

Feb 13, 2019 9:16 AM in response to CarolineMP

My recording was made using the same Logic/Library Steinway, which in the totality of all sampled pianos, is only fair. While it sounds good in a mix it's not a perfect solo instrument. Your uploaded samples are all played with the sustain pedal down, I imagine what you're hearing is, 1. a possible overload of your playback system, 2. the interaction of the Piano samples causing difference tones, two pitches combine to produce a third tone which causes intermodulation distortion. I know... it sounds wacky and it could be something far simpler. However, it is something that is common in electrically produced sound. Especially since you have the sustain pedal down right from the beginning. It also depends on the quality of your playback system, computer speakers, studio monitors, iPhone...etc.

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Piano midi recording in Logic Pro X - vibration / piano key noise help

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