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MOVE files in /Applications?

I used to be able to freely move any files whose parent is /Applications at will. I kinda got interesting in re-organizing a bunch of stuff in there, but found my old DRAG AND DROP function no longer worked. It always wanted to make an alias, not MOVE the files I want. Even old keystrokes won't do what I want. Is THIS part of this SIP thing? Is there ANy way to work around this most user unfriendly barrier (obviously I have been using Macs for a very long time, back to 1984)? Feel like I am being dictated as to how I actually use the machine...

Mac Pro, macOS 10.12

Posted on May 20, 2019 1:45 PM

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Posted on May 20, 2019 1:59 PM

The only workaround is to disable the SIP, move your files, then restore the SIP.


Turning Off Rootless System Integrity Protection in OS X El Capitan 10.11.x or Later


Again, the vast majority of Mac users should not disable rootless. Disabling rootless is aimed exclusively at advanced Mac users. Do so at your own risk, this is not specifically recommended.


  1. Reboot the Mac and hold down Command + R keys after the startup chime, this will boot OS X into Recovery HD.
  2. When the Utility Menu appears, select the Terminal from the Utilities menu in the menubar.
  3. Paste the following command into the terminal then hit return: csrutil disable; reboot
  4. You’ll see a message saying that System Integrity Protection has been disabled, and the Mac needs to restart for changes to take effect. The Mac will then reboot itself automatically.


You can also issue the command by itself without the automatic reboot like so: csrutil disable


Once the Mac boots up again, System Integrity Protection will be disabled entirely in OS X.


Checking the Status of Rootless / System Integrity Protection in OS X


If you want to know the status of rootless before rebooting or without rebooting the Mac from the Recovery HD, just paste the following command into the Terminal: csrutil status


You’ll either see one of two messages:


$ csrutil status

$ System Integrity Protection status: enabled


or


$ csrutil status

$ System Integrity Protection status: disabled


If at any time you want to change the status of rootless, another reboot from the Recovery HD is required.


How to Re-Enable Rootless System Integrity Protection in OS X


Simply reboot the Mac again from the Recovery HD as directed above, but at the command line use the following syntax instead: csrutil enable


Just as before, a reboot of the Mac is required for changes to take effect.

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Question marked as Best reply

May 20, 2019 1:59 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

The only workaround is to disable the SIP, move your files, then restore the SIP.


Turning Off Rootless System Integrity Protection in OS X El Capitan 10.11.x or Later


Again, the vast majority of Mac users should not disable rootless. Disabling rootless is aimed exclusively at advanced Mac users. Do so at your own risk, this is not specifically recommended.


  1. Reboot the Mac and hold down Command + R keys after the startup chime, this will boot OS X into Recovery HD.
  2. When the Utility Menu appears, select the Terminal from the Utilities menu in the menubar.
  3. Paste the following command into the terminal then hit return: csrutil disable; reboot
  4. You’ll see a message saying that System Integrity Protection has been disabled, and the Mac needs to restart for changes to take effect. The Mac will then reboot itself automatically.


You can also issue the command by itself without the automatic reboot like so: csrutil disable


Once the Mac boots up again, System Integrity Protection will be disabled entirely in OS X.


Checking the Status of Rootless / System Integrity Protection in OS X


If you want to know the status of rootless before rebooting or without rebooting the Mac from the Recovery HD, just paste the following command into the Terminal: csrutil status


You’ll either see one of two messages:


$ csrutil status

$ System Integrity Protection status: enabled


or


$ csrutil status

$ System Integrity Protection status: disabled


If at any time you want to change the status of rootless, another reboot from the Recovery HD is required.


How to Re-Enable Rootless System Integrity Protection in OS X


Simply reboot the Mac again from the Recovery HD as directed above, but at the command line use the following syntax instead: csrutil enable


Just as before, a reboot of the Mac is required for changes to take effect.

May 21, 2019 1:21 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

Well I think it has to do with the chflags 'restricted', the chmod ACL that says no one can delete the file, and most likely the xattr com.apple.rootless


If you get them out of the way using the above commands in Bold maybe you can do what you want. A bad idea, but I'm not against people learning (suggest keeping regular backups).


/bin/ls -leO@ /Applications

drwxr-xr-x@ 3 root wheel restricted 96 Apr 27 11:53 App Store.app

com.apple.rootless 0

0: group:everyone deny delete

drwxr-xr-x@ 3 root wheel restricted 96 Apr 27 11:53 Automator.app

com.apple.rootless 0

0: group:everyone deny delete

drwxr-xr-x@ 3 root wheel restricted 96 Apr 27 11:53 Books.app

com.apple.rootless 0

0: group:everyone deny delete

drwxr-xr-x@ 3 root wheel restricted 96 Apr 27 11:53 Calculator.app

com.apple.rootless 0

0: group:everyone deny delete

drwxr-xr-x@ 3 root wheel restricted 96 Apr 27 11:53 Calendar.app

com.apple.rootless 0

0: group:everyone deny delete

drwxr-xr-x@ 3 root wheel restricted 96 Apr 27 11:53 Chess.app

com.apple.rootless 0

0: group:everyone deny delete


... <see Additional Text box>...


May 20, 2019 1:59 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

Too many people moved apps out of Applications and then things started to break.


Moving System Preferences causes a lot of apps to fail because they cannot find System Preferences.


Or an operating system update/upgrade puts a new copy of the app in Applications, but the user has an old, now Out-of-Date app somewhere else, and when they launch the Out-of-Date app either does not work anymore or it does not contain the new and improved feature that has been all over the news, and the user writes a blog post ranting about how they dislike the product.


They move something macOS needs to do the update/upgrade, and then it fails, leaving the user with a broken system.


So basically, you can add and remove your 3rd party apps, but Apple apps are locked down by System Integrity Protection.

May 20, 2019 2:22 PM in response to BobHarris

Bob, the issue more times than not are third party apps, it seems they get vacuumed up with anything from Apple. Moving an application file OUT of /Applications SHOULD not break it (oh and how come the OS has put an Applications folder in my user directory?). Yes I understand that some badly written applications CAN assume it ONLY resides in /Applications, but that is the fault of the developers. Yup I DID have one instance of an application update that screwed things up because they did NOT update the existing app as it SHOULD have, but wrote a new one in /Applications, THAT is a developer fault. I DO have many third party apps that actually live "below" /Applications in separate folders, most all of the function just fine even when being upgraded... this is good programming. Now I DO understand the use of the 3 Library folders (although I am annoyed that 2 are made invisible by default, if I am looking to troubleshoot anything, I NEED to be able to look in there), but there DO seem to be inconsistencies in what goes where... but that is a way different issue!


Anyone know of an actual documented list of what "bad" things can happen in a rootless system? I see a lot of stuff obviously written by marketing types about DANGER DANGER DANGER but never being particularly specific...

May 20, 2019 3:27 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

In the past I have helped a user that dragged lots of files out of /Applications to their desktop, and assumed it would create a shortcut like Windows.


Their system tanked. Nothing worked.


I had to talk them though the process of getting the apps back into /Applications. It has been awhile, but I think it was done in Single User Mode with mv commands.


I have seen users move System Preferences and things break. I ended up diagnosing the problem.


I have seen users remove a an app, have an updated app put in /Applications, but because they had the app on the desktop and double clicked the old app on the desktop, they did not get the functionality advertised in the new Mac OS X release (it was awhile ago). I had to figure that one out for an irate user that insisted the new app was broken.


There are real events I have seen and helped people understand what went wrong.


I'm sure Apple Support has received lots of calls with users whining that their system is broke because they moved things around inside /Applications. Either moved apps out, or created their own subfolders and moved apps into the subfolders, etc...


Feel free to educate all the developers that they cannot go looking for an app in /Applications or /Applications/Utilities and must use other means of searching. Herding "Cats" is always fun 😀


And all installers to not assume an app should reside in /Applications, but rather search the entire disk to find where it might live (or if there are multiple copies where they live) and update the app where it is, as apposed to installing a new copy in /Applications. I'll use the "Pushing a String" analogy this time 🙃


I've been a software developer for 47 years, working on platforms that boot by toggling in the boot code on the front console switches, to booting from 80 column punched cards and punched paper tape, to booting from magtape, floppy disks, hard disks, and SSDs.


I have yet to see universal consistency between developers. Not even when they are in the same group, let along different companies.


My advice. If the app installs itself in /Applications or /Applications/Utilities or even ~/Applications, let it alone and create your own folder of aliases if you just want a frequently used subset. If the application comes in a .dmg or .zip file, you can put it anywhere you like, just try to be consistent so you do not end up with a dozen copies over the years.


You may not like my advice, but your system will have fewer problems over the years if you follow it.

May 20, 2019 5:24 PM in response to BobHarris

At this point about all I can say is I DO have an option to turn that which is getting in my way off. I saw a Lisa about 6 months before it went on sale (worked for a Fortune 200, had a bunch of folks from Apple in for a private showing) and immediately knew the desktop metaphor was how I wanted to interact with computers. Still buy into that, ditching SIP allows me to continue. The day THAT stops (and that day WILL come when ios fully takes over the desktop and the file system is hidden...

May 21, 2019 2:19 PM in response to BobHarris

****, ya HAD to make me go back to the ls man page to figure out what to do (been a decade or more since I had any need to look at stuff that way)! Yeah I get the the fruit's apps are restricted, I never said I wanted to do ANYTHING with them other than let them sit there. As it is, NOTHING other than their own apps is listed as restricted. SOME stuff had a "com.apple.quarantine" after them... just normal everyday apps, and no rhyme nor reason why one would be but another not. Their own Keynote app was NOT restricted.


This is ridiculous, not for a moment while I accept I am doing something "bad" as you put it if I want to arrange NON APPLE stuff they way I want or need to. I have stayed with X for the very reasons they are taking away from me. Needless to say you have lost a 30+ year fan and supporter... might as well go win10, no sense beating my head against the wall anymore, y'aint got nothing over them anymore with this draconian nonsense.

May 21, 2019 3:06 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

I've lost nothing. I don't work for Apple. I'm just a user like you.


Did you try the chflags command, the chmod command and the xattr command to remove those attributes? Once you figure it out chances are you can script it and move things to your hearts content.


And I thought it was a bad idea, but you are not doing anything "Bad" as in "Breaking Bad" or illegal.


I'm not even sure why it bothers you so much. I rarely go wondering through those directories. If I use an app enough it is on my Dock. Or I use Command-Space and let Spotlight find and launch it for me. Or I create a folder, put frequently used app Aliases in the folder, then drag the folder to the Dock for each access. Or put an Alias on the Desktop.


If your workflow has you looking in Applications, then create your own Applications, and populate and arrange it with Aliases as you desire so your workflow is how you like it. What is so special about Apple's Applications folder that you must change it.


As far as I know, then apps that are restricted in Applications are the one that came with macOS. The others are after market installs, either from the App Store or a 3rd party installer, or drag and drop from a .dmg or .zip file. They are unlikely to have restricted flags, as they are not always expected to be there.

May 21, 2019 3:10 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

Oh yea. Good news. Applications - Utilities -> Boot Camp Assistant will allow you to install Windows on your Mac, so you can at least get some value from your existing hardware before you get a Dell, HP, ASUS, Lenovo, etc... And I'm not trying to be funny. If you want to switch to Windows, but do not want to buy new hardware just yet, you can continue to use your Mac hardware.


Or there are Linux installs for Mac hardware, is you want to go that route. Linux lets you do just about anything your heart desires and has more customization than you can shake a stick at.

May 23, 2019 2:07 PM in response to BobHarris

Even without restricted flags, NOTHING can be moved. Sorry I kinda sounded a bit extra grumpy... this stuff really burns my rubber. I fell heavily for the whole "desktop metaphor" back before the Lisa even went on sale (I saw and played a bit with one about 6 months before first sale). This inability to simply rearrange files visually is kinda one of the last straws of that metaphor's complete destruction (don't get me started on freaking windows opening up and negating work I am in the middle of). NOT a happy camper. Nah, playing around, messing with individual files in terminal just doesn't cut it (I had a programmer working for me once upon a time, he flew ONLY on the command line, but he also kept all his text around 8 points being a young 'un, but man could he spin Perl on it's head!). For the time being, option drag WILL create a physical copy, then I go delete and MOVE the copy on the desktop where I want it. ****, laying out icons visually which I used to love is totally gone at this point. Soon we'll get more ios crap and good-bye actual file system.


Hardware is a WHOLE 'nother issue... I'm keeping THE BEST EVER piece of h'ware they EVER made in my dear cMP. I had a bootcamp partition for a few years, but one day is killed itself and it never figured out how to fix itself. Metal came out and my fave MMORPG took to it just fine, so I COULD play on the X side (not as well, but better than prior). Going to get a SSD soon (so much from each ss check ya know) and getting winblowz rolling again. The ONLY scary thing is someone who can do mobo repairs if needed on my MacPro. Had a bud (one of the co-founders of Tekserve) whose business did just that kind of stuff, but they expanded to full retail and Cupertino's retail push buried them. I bet in a few years, X is going to be so locked down that it might not be worth it to go Hackintosh. At LEAST I ain't gonna live long enough to see my kinda coastal city under water from the riging oceans.

May 24, 2019 11:27 AM in response to Riverside_Guy

Now THIS IS INTERESTING... A friend was suggesting dealing with my peeve via applying certain R/W permissions, as in to me specifically. Took a look, nah, can't be the issue. BUT now that I am thinking more about "drag n drop" than unable to MOVE, I tried searching on that. Oh boy, there DO seem to be many angry customers with things they used to do that they can't, but many related to trackpads (a very different ball of wax). BUT I came upon one post whose explanation seemed to point the finger at me! The old cmd-click to move. Pressing command means the file deselects as soon as I try and move it. Ya gotta click, "pick up" the file, THEN press command. See, I was always picking up the file and simply moving it, without any need for any modifier key. Still not totally happy because I have to answer a password dialog. Still wish for the day of straight forward drag n drop!

MOVE files in /Applications?

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