Iphone 11 Pro Extreme lens flare

Hi William. Hope you're doing well. I appreciate your perseverance in addressing this issue on behalf of Apple. Let's for argument sake say that the other phones in the Samsung link you've provided produce exactly the same disappointing artifact results as the 11 Pro. Does this cross-brand defect in the optics mean that the problem doesn't exist? Or does it mean that there's work to be done by these technology giants to improve these remarkable devices? Or better yet, to admit that "Floating Artifacts" do indeed mar images and that "We're going to put out best people on it; stay tuned for a fix."

It means “it’s a limit imposed by physics and optics at this point.”

Perhaps a fix can be found someday, but it won’t be simple.

Leica and Huawei came up with a way to minimize flare but it also reduces low light performance as all coatings do.

Hi ! Please let us know your reference wrt coatings adversely affecting transmission i.e. induce a light loss of the incident light rays given that the purpose of these coatings is to improve incident light rays transmission and reduce reflection, refraction, etc... which are parasitic effects.

Hi JP,

My take is that these iPhones were not fully completed _ hardware & software _ but the decision to launch, almost certainly because of marketing pressure, was taken anyway. One of the tale tell is the incomplete reverse induction charging...

With regards to the camera, I believe that some optics fine tuning or re-design should significantly improve the situation with the most appropriate combination of:

1) Optical formulae.

2) Sensor anti-reflective coatings.

3) Lenses & lenses covers materials & refractive index.

4) Lenses & lenses covers anti-reflective coatings.

5) Lenses covers exact sizing. Surround area from matt black material in & out.

6) Matt black external surface for the camera and lens covers surrounding rings (at this time mirror like)

The above may not be feasible by buying existing cameras modules and fitting the bits together which is cheaper but has compromised results...

I am afraid that what we see will remain a limitation for this generation of iPhones. People could experiment and specify their own lens covers & surrounding support rings custom made and see the resulting effects... But is this realistic ?

Apple is not really a specialised optics company like Leica, Zeiss, Olympus Zuiko, etc... Should they wish to improve the cameras and reduce these internal reflections to the minimum then they should perhaps outsource the complete cameras module design to these people...

Hi William,

I have consulted the reference you quoted Edmonds Optics: Anti-Reflective (AR) coatings. Here are some extracts which says the exact contrary to what you wrote earlier:

1) “...a variety of anti-reflection (AR) coating options that vastly improve the efficiency of the optic by increasing transmission, enhancing contrast, and eliminating ghost images...”

2) “Many low-light systems incorporate AR coated optics to allow for efficient use of light.” This one is especially important as you claimed that anti-reflective coating typically reduced low light performance when in fact it is the exact opposite... Camera lenses anti-reflective coatings are specifically meant to increase transmission but reduce reflection and refraction, irrespective of light conditions.

As I quoted months ago, I studied optics at university some 35 years ago. The fundamentals have not changed and my memory still works although I work in a totally different field of fluid mechanics & measurement.

The optical fix for the ghosting is simple; it is a complete optical design from A to Z.

What is not necessarily simple is that we are not dealing with a camera per se. We are dealing with a camera phone which people throw in their bags, put in pockets, handle by hand i.e. finger prints in the lenses covers, etc... By comparison, is anyone happy to throw their camera lenses unprotected in a bag, put their fingers on camera lenses or even filters ? Of course not !!!

It is this specific camera phone context which makes things so much more difficult and lead to a compromise which is detrimental to what can be achieved in terms of optical performance. Unless changes are made to the current camera phone paradigm with adoption of some systematic efficient protection to the lenses covers then I am afraid things may not improve much...

I have the same issue, I only notice it when there is so much light in the photo, I haven’t test it at night, but it’s pretty annoying, I don’t know if it is the glass covering up the lens or the whole square glass, but this needs a fix, and quick, I own a normal 11 Pro

I very much doubt it will ever get fixed for the iPhone 11 series.

These phones are done already.

Pretty soon the iPhone 12 series will be released and the iPhone 11 will be near history. These 12 months cycles are so short that Apple will certainly not even think about it for the 11 series. They may think about it for the 12 series but even this is not certain. We spent our money, we got a phone with its pluses and minuses and that’s it. It is a “take it or leave it“ philosophy and if people are not satisfied they can either return the phone fast or tough...

You don't need to be a fanboy, I used to use an iPhone 8 before, and I liked it, I bought an iPhone 11, and I am facing a lot of problems - right now I will take a photo at night, during the light hours of the day, another photo is formed in one photo.

I went to school too, and even the physics knowledge I learned at school tells me where the problem is. I have three eyes to see what is happening in the world, the topic that I'm bored with is just this, the camera is a very important issue, and the occurrence of the problem has created a hatred against apple, I gave $ 1200 for nothing.

[Edited by Moderator]

Detailing facts as given by people in the industry as well as many photography reviewers is not being a “fan boy.”

If you believe this issue is so easily solved, find a high end phone camera that does not suffer from them.

An Internet search will quickly tell you that not only has this issue been around since at least the iPhone 8, it also occurs on premium smartphones from Google and Samsung as well.

Other people will see that your "problem" is a normal photographic artifact when using a compound lens.

If it is present in a multi-thousand dollar DSLR/lens combination, how would you propose Apple solve it?

If it happens in every other smart phone, how would you propose Apple solve it?

Laws of physics and optics apply equally to all.

By the way, I went to the apple store. The guy told me when they “replace the camera” they’re lying to you. They only replace the external part (for scratches or cracks etc) but they don’t actually replace the entire camera inside too.

I went through this same technical issue back in 2019. Had a total of 3 iPhone 11Plus replacements and as many have already stated, this– or software updates – does not eliminate or correct the "Floating Artifact" issue. (Mimifang's dusk photo above is a great example of the technical problem. )

It's very clear that this is NOT a traditional "Lens Flare" camera sensor issue – and also clear that it will not be corrected in this iteration of an otherwise pretty remarkable phone.

For the record: My previous iPhone, a 6S, did not have this problem. In that I do shoot photos and now videos commercially I recently purchased an affordably-priced Sony ZV-1 "Vlogger" camera that isn't perfect but does not produce these floating artifacts. This is not a plug for Sony. All my gear for computing and mobile is top-tier Apple products and has been since the early 80's. Good luck to all.

Hi Mimifangs. Just so you understand my position on this issue, all consumer cameras will produce lens flare when pointing the lens at or near a higher intensity light source level than the background. Lens hoods, aperture/speed settings and shooting styles can help to mitigate that but not eliminate it.

What I experienced along with an uncalculated number or other users is the "floating artifacts" effect with the iPhone 11 Plus. Your dusk shot of the lamposts shows a duplicated floating image of the higher lit lights against the darker sky. That "dup" layer is flipped on both the vertical and horizontal axes. To me, there seems to be a an orchestrated plan to wed the floating artifact issue to predictable and traditional lens flare outcomes. Their strategy (it seems) is to respond to customer concerns by naming a problem as a technical imaging standard.

I've not heard of any "fix" coming soon, but let's see what the engineers can accomplish.