losing Playlists with Catalina?

Hello everybody. I‘m a little bit scared of the new Update. I read some articles/discussions where some people had problems with the new music app. So my question to the people that already updatet. Will i, when i ipdate from mojave to catalina, from itunes to the music app lose my playlists, cause i don’t have the streaming service apple music. I have 12000 tracks (importer files + some purchases from the store) all sorted in playlists. Will i loose playlist, intelligent/smart playlists? Also, i got all of them in 3 playlist-folders.

Posted on Oct 8, 2019 8:38 AM

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Posted on Jul 11, 2020 5:30 AM

My experience has been similar. I have a large music library - over 375,000 songs, and I have them kept on a RAID volume rather than copied into my library. I am a DJ and I import new music Monthly, usually on the order of thousands of songs at a time. Occasionally, I have to move folders around. iTunes and the Music app have no means of allowing me to move the physical file location from within the application, so this sometimes forces me to delete a bunch of stuff from the library and re-add it (usually tens of thousands of songs at a time). This has been quite a test against iTunes - which struggled to manage it. I understand that's not a common use case, and I chalked the performance issues up to old hardware.


When I upgraded hardware, I was appalled to find that the Music application in Catalina, keeps losing a large number of my files. I import songs, everything works until I close the Music app, and then most of them are gone the next time I open the application. I've tried this on multiple machines, on an iTunes->Music upgrade and also on a clean install. The application does not appear to be able to manage large libraries properly. I searched these discussion boards, and found that many people have had the same experience - most of them just gave up.


Things I've observed:


* Opening the application while holding option, browsing to the original ITL file is slightly better. But the application still loses songs and playlists when I exit.

* Library.musicdb doesn't change immediately when I add music. The application appears to keep a working copy in memory somewhere, and another process or agent actually commits the changes to the database. This is where everything goes wrong.

* If you add a LOT of songs at once, it will stop updating the Library.musicdb, and any changes you make after that point will disappear the next time you open Music.

* When this abandonment of committing the library occurs, the console is usually filled with log messages about "track not created because it is not new and does not exist"

* Importing from the iTunes XML (rather than opening the ITL) or importing an XML with over 150,000 tracks in it, will make the symptoms appear almost immediately


I've been able to kind of skirt around the problem by doing the following. You lose your import dates and play stats, but it prevents the Music app from losing stuff when you close it:


* Open Music, and spend a long time putting everything into it again.

* Create a new playlist that contains all your songs (or split them up into multiple playlists if you want - I did mine by Genre) -- just ensure you all of your songs are in one or more playlists

* Export the library to a new XML file

* Export each of your smart playlists to separate XML files

* Close and re-open Music. Observe that all your hard work is gone again.

* Close Music. Open music while holding the Option key.

* Choose a location for your new library.

* Use the pieterderycke/itunes-export tool on GitHub will turn your iTunes XML into m3u playlists.

* Open each m3u in a text editor like TextMate or Atom, and ensure the path to the files is correct. I had to do a search/replace, because the paths the tool output started with '../'.

* Break any playlist that's bigger than 3MB into multiple smaller files. You can do it in a text editor, but I'm old school andI used terminal:

$ cat BigList.m3u | wc -l

$ cat BigList.m3u | head -n25000 > BigList_1.m3u

$ cat BigList.m3u | head -n50000 | tail -n +25001 > BigList_2.m3u

$ cat BigList.m3u | head -n75000 | tail -n +50001 > BigList_3.m3u

$ cat BigList.m3u | head -n100000 | tail -n +75001 > BigList_4.m3u


* Import each m3u file, one at a time. Wait for music to finish processing each file, and doing gapless playback analysis.

* Watch the Library.musicdb to ensure that it grows after each playlist you import. This took several minutes, sometimes, after I imported an m3u. If you import an m3u and the library stops growing, the playlist is too large - stop importing, close Music, split that m3u into smaller chunks, and reopen Music before trying again.

* Import your smart playlists from the XMLs. If any are dependent on other playlists, you will likely need to update them.

* Backup your Library.musicdb file

* Most importantly -- write an angry letter to Apple about this. Many people have libraries unsuitable for storage in the cloud. They give us literally one way to sync music to our phones and then make the application so brittle that it crumbles under even the slightest amount of load. We can't be quiet about it.


Hope this helps someone.

56 replies

Dec 8, 2019 3:06 AM in response to turingtest2

I've used Time Machine to find an earlier version of iTunes that would presumably contain all my Playlists etc but couldn't restore this version as there was no option to do so. I've also tried dragging the iTunes Library.itl to my desktop and trying to find the Previous iTunes Folder but I when I click on the icon, I just get the options of opening, copying etc etc. There is no option to open any Previous version. I've tried using Spotlight to find the Previous iTunes Folder but drawn a blank. Another morning wasted and no further forward.

Dec 19, 2019 8:10 AM in response to rreinhardt93

What if you don't have your music organized that way? I neitehr "Keep iTunes Media folder organized" nor "Copy files to iTunes Media folder". Many gigs of MP3s ripped with LAME (rather than iTunes), I organize myself by genres, and spread over several volumes, and then Add to iTunes myself.


I've been doing that for years, and have hundreds of playlists depending on that structure.


If Catalina Music can't handle that format, I may stay on Mojave forever… (Until Apple fixes that…)


Can anyone confirm?



Jan 16, 2020 4:02 PM in response to Stibae_12

If you are subscribed to Apple Music, then there's nothing that you need to do.


Simply not true. The entire format of the exports in Catalina has changed (example):


Thunderstruck AC/DC A. Young & M. Young The Razors Edge Hard Rock 10844190 292 1 1 1 12 1990 8/26/15, 10:26 AM 8/26/15, 10:26 AM 256 44100 Apple Music AAC audio file 44 12/26/19, 1:55 PM 2 10/21/19, 8:12 AM


...which is a new format that you are using instead of XML. And when you go to import these into your library, iTunes chokes. I have a current, full, Apple Music subscription (in fact that's where at least half of these tracks came from, with others coming from either myself or artists that I've known).


I wanted to clean up my library. So I backed up the playlists, and deleted everything. That used to work.


Now I have no way of getting my music back without manually adding every track. And of course this happens on "All My Devices" instantly as per Apple's usual.


Time to switch to Google. Thanks, I needed an excuse.

Feb 4, 2020 4:04 AM in response to turingtest2

Yes, that’s exactly what I did. Now I’m running Mojave on an external HD.


I’m still trying to make Catalina work for me but it’s been a lot of hard work so far.


There’s a time where Apple software worked for us, now it’s working for Apple. Essentially they expect all of us to subscribe to Apple Music, let them sync across all the devices, basically becoming dumb users.


I desperately search for an alternative for my music management...

Apr 10, 2020 10:58 AM in response to Stibae_12

I have a lot of playlists and 30,000-plus songs. My problem is that I upgraded to Catalina and iTunes was working fine but I made the mistake of activating Match on my main computer and now I have all of the gazillion playlists created since 2003 that are in iCloud. I use Time Machine and BackBlaze and tried to access an old playlist file, but how do I do that now there's no xml file anymore?

Aug 5, 2020 9:59 AM in response to Stibae_12

I erased my hard drive due to a glitch, and then, due to an imperfect Time Machine backup, had a real mess. This was in Nov 2019. I finally got it to work and have been using most features, but not playing any music. A couple of weeks ago I tried to open and play some songs in Music only to find all songs gone, although listed. After an hour chatting with Apple Support, I did find I have two separate user files, each with part of my user system files. I managed to find the songs, listed under iTunes, in the 'non-Home' file. The songs are back; however, all my playlists (8 of significance) are missing. In fact, the left sidebar in Music doesn't even have a heading of 'Playlists' under 'Library'. Tried to 'Import Playlist' but that didn't work. I don't subscribe to the new Music requirements because I don't listen to any of the new so-called music, nor the radio. I just want to use the 1600 songs in my 8 playlists, culled from 250 CDs that I loaded into iTunes over the past several years. How do I get these playlists back?

Incidentally, I plan to visit my local Apple Store when it reopens to resolve the basic user problem with my Mac.

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losing Playlists with Catalina?

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