Level 2

252 points

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.

We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.

Interested to hear others experiences.

Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

Top-ranking reply

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Posted on Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM

All,

We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.

This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.

In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.

It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables). From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.

Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU: We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU. The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors. Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports. This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.

When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.

We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.

Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.

Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.

Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.

Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!

Tim

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4,224 replies

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Jun 19, 2020 10:36 AM in response to ahmedfromreservoir

I think you are referring to the AMD 5600m upgrade? We are hoping to get access to that configuration but Apple is closing their stores in Arizona again, which will limit our access to the Apple Business Team. We may be able to get one from our Apple portal, though, so we're remaining optimistic.

The $800 price tag on this upgrade is ridiculous for the performance and when compared to other GPU's. From what I have seen, the AMD 5600m upgrade is equivalent to an Nvidia 2060, which costs around $400 and less in bulk. So, you pay much more than the actual cost of the chip and you get no credit for the chip they're replacing. You shouldn't have to pay full retail for the upgrade.

It's kind of like buying a new vehicle from the dealer and having them upgrade the wheels: Zero credit for wheels that came with the vehicle plus you pay a premium for the new ones. At least with an auto dealer, those of us who know, you can go buy new wheels on your own, replace the old ones and then sell the old wheels, with no miles, to someone else.

At some point Apple needs to be called out on these ridiculous prices, especially when customer service and QC has gone downhill.

RABAAL

Level 1

4 points

Jun 20, 2020 6:30 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Same here. Spain, 16 inch. Connected to an external monitor, Premiere, Logic, skype... fan always on. I prefer to work with my old late 2013 because the fan noise makes me feel something will go wrong soon.

Apple, please. Give some response to this. We work professionally with your machines. We are your prophets. But we need a high level answer to this problem.

THX

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

Jun 20, 2020 10:08 AM in response to RABAAL

Just tried again, same (non-fan) results; I really would love to know what it is about my 2560x1440 and 2560x1600 monitors connected via a TB3 to MDP connector that doesn't cause this issue.

Yes, the computer warms up a bit, the CPU and the GPU reaching temps in the 70s C, but not enough over half an hour to turn the fans up over 2200 RPM.

I am not saying this to tell anyone having this issue they are wrong, it's just very strange I can't force this condition to occur.

Jun 20, 2020 3:10 PM in response to Dogcow-Moof

Btw. I also bought a MacBook Pro 16 a few days ago and will send it back on monday because I have the same problems when connecting to an external monitor. Simply not usable in a professional environment...

[Edited by Moderator]

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

Jun 20, 2020 3:15 PM in response to brycesteiner

Actually, no.

I had a full-screen HD video from YouTube running on the Dell screen while I had a window keeping track of the temps on the laptop screen (and was also checking my email and reading the Apple Support Communities, actually.)

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

Jun 20, 2020 4:12 PM in response to brycesteiner

Adapter:

USB-C to Mini DisplayPort Adapter, ITD ITANDA 4K Thunderbolt 3 to Mini DP Adapter Cable for Apple New MacBook 2017, ChromeBook Pixel Samsung S8(No Thunderbolt 2)

Cables:

Dell U2717D: Cable Matters Mini DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort Cable in White 6 Feet - 4K Resolution Ready
Apple 30" Cinema Display: Apple Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

Jun 21, 2020 6:41 AM in response to Chris_Mac_User

Chris_Mac_User wrote:

I simply asked William, why he is posting in this thread although he obviously doesn't have any problems with this issue.

Which I answered in the post I made immediately before yours and in several other posts throughout the history of this thread.

Jun 21, 2020 7:31 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

William Kucharski--

So you are using one DisplayPort display at 2560 by 1440, and the Apple Cinema Display 30-in (also only 2560 wide, by 1600 tall), which goes out as a DisplayPort and has a complex ACTIVE converter to Dual-Link DVI.

Both of those are narrower than the built-in 3072 by 1920 display.

Are you shutting off the Built-in "heartbeat-refresh" display, or letting it stay on? Does it make a difference?

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

Jun 21, 2020 7:54 PM in response to denizcan

denizcan wrote:

Couldn't you just share the info you gathered via command line, instead of saying "I don't have.."?

I did:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250878229?answerId=252862166022#252862166022

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

Jun 22, 2020 8:56 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

They are in °F.

I didn’t change any settings in iStat Menus, so I don’t know if there is a preferences setting for that or not.

All I did was the same thing I did before and this was the result.

There is no need for my fans to be at a higher speed because the temps are not increasing beyond the point reported - the machine is in stasis if you will, not getting any hotter with the fans running below 2K RPM and driving the Dell full screen. No other software was installed, and the machine was handling the heat just fine - far from “getting ready to explode” as was opined - all the internal components were well within expected temperature ranges, especially the Intel CPU which is rated for operation to 100°C.

I suspect if I had a 4K monitor the results might well be different.

Jun 23, 2020 3:49 AM in response to ryunokokoro

ryunokokoro wrote:

What's the point of connecting an external monitor if the second a core component of the device starts to act up, the machine grinds itself to a screeching halt?

Are you serious that when you connect a second screen (or 2) that it literally halts?

Jun 23, 2020 8:05 AM in response to brycesteiner

brycesteiner wrote:

Are you serious that when you connect a second screen (or 2) that it literally halts?

No. The halting happens when certain operations will trigger a kernel_task + CPU throttling process so fierce that the trackpad becomes inert (no more haptic feedback or mouse movement) and the screen freezes for a second or two before slowly coming back to life. It seems as though video-related processing - whether through the FaceTime camera or watching a video on a browser - will trigger this fairly reliably.

Context: This discussion is with respect to the 2018 15" MBP with one 2K and one 4K monitor connected (both via HDMI). It happens even with a single monitor is connected (either).

[It is extremely frustrating that my 2018 professional laptop has its performance trounced by my 2012 Retina MBP (no external monitor) when even a single external monitor is connected...]

Jun 23, 2020 1:52 PM in response to PhotogWithMac

Very thank u for sharing stats with community, unfortunately rollback to Mojave is not the case for Macbook Pro 16".

But at least we have much hope now, that it could be fixed by software update. Also, please pay attention that first screenshot is with disabled turboboost.

Jun 24, 2020 12:52 AM in response to jc_9

jc_9, thank you for commenting. I was sloppy during the test, I had the power cable attached during the Catalina test and not during the Mojave test, thanks for pointing that out. I will retest.

But to doubt it's meaningful? The fans go up to 3800 under Catalina and only 2000 under Mojave when running idle with ext display. I know my machine, have had it for 7 years and before Catalina there hasn't been fan noise when idle and ext display connected, just as an other poster reported using the exact same late 2013 machine.

But as I said, I will retest.

There is no RHS (Radeon High Side) reading in iStat menus for the Nvidia Geforce 750M. I thought comparing total system Wattage is the right way to test, like other testers did, because it shows the combined power increase after only connecting the ext display. If I'm wrong would you please enlighten me? If the W = V * A calc shows only 9.45 for the dGPU, what other cause is there for the 20W total power increase?

DPJ

Level 4

1,374 points

Jun 24, 2020 7:55 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

Yeah it's kinda bizarre that people are expecting someone to own this configuration so soon when it's an $800 upgrade that many people may not need, then let alone come to this forum to complain about heat issues with it.

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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise