Level 2

252 points

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.

We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.

Interested to hear others experiences.

Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

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TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Posted on Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM

All,

We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.

This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.

In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.

It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables). From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.

Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU: We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU. The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors. Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports. This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.

When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.

We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.

Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.

Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.

Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.

Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!

Tim

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4,224 replies

ZachG08

Level 1

4 points

Aug 5, 2021 9:15 PM in response to TimUzzanti

Hey everyone,

I have a solution that has worked for me. My big issue was I use an external monitor and I produce music so I can't have my fans loud while I am using guitar. Just like you guys I faced the fan issue---even with temps in the 60-65 degree celsius range my fans were on blast with an external monitor. I did 2 things this evening that seem to have COMPLETELY resolved the issue (not sure which did it or if it was both together)

1) Click on your battery/charging icon in the menu in the top right of your screen -> Click "Battery Preferences" -> Power Adapter -> Automatic Graphic Switching (uncheck)

2) Go to System Preferences by clicking the apple icon on the top left of your screen (make sure to select this icon on your laptop monitor, not your external monitor). System Preferences -> Display -> Uncheck True Tone

I went from having my fans running full blast in my music software and even browsing the internet to now having them be inaudible. It was so bad for me that I considered selling the machine, but after discovering this resolution this evening I'm taking my listing down. Honestly I notice no difference without the true tone. If anything my external monitor looks a little better.

Hope this was helpful!

Sep 26, 2021 7:30 AM in response to Atomic-member

16-in MacBook Pro heat and performance:

This computer was built with a ninth generation 14nm Intel processor. The only way to meet the target performance was to make it a six or eight core processor. This processor generates an enormous burst of heat when it does Turbo Boost, and there is only one cooling rail shared by both the CPU and GPU. So getting Either side too hot ramps up the fans.

This processor was supposed to be an eleventh-generation 7nm processor, but intel is three years late, and is only starting to ship its tenth generation 10nm processors now.

The drive in this computer is more than 100 times the typical speed of computers a decade older. It is the "Muscle Car" of notebook computers. If you have installed software that wastes computer resources on a regular basis, such as speeder-uppers, Cleaners, Optimizers, Virus Scanners, third-party file Sync-ers such as DropBox, OneDrive, or GoogleDrive, or a VPN, it will do busywork at previously-impossible speeds — heating up at a ferocious rate.

Apple DID redesign the cooling system for this specific Mac. New, high-efficiency fans are used. But for some uses, that is still not enough.

Some of the best advice is to install Turbo Boost Switcher and turn off CPU Turbo Boost. This reduces the huge sudden overheating brought on by Turbo Boost, that simply does not translate into real-world performance gains.

For external displays, changing away from HDMI to DisplayPort family (or to DisplayPort over ThunderBolt or USB-C) will reduce the Voltages and slightly reduce the heat generated. It is a good thing to do, but it may not be enough to solve this issue by itself.

Nov 21, 2019 12:38 PM in response to TimUzzanti

One day old MBP 16" i7 version.

My fans are spinning all the time and the top part of the machine gets warm to the touch.

I have noticed that Chrome is a problem since it by default will use the GPU and that has keep my previous two MBPs busy and hot. Settings -> System -> Use hardware acceleration when available is set to OFF and work pretty fine for my daily use (I'm a web-developer in JavaScript)

Never had any issues with Safari, but the developer tools stinks so my daily driver is Chrome.

My previous MBP 15" i7 mid-2018 was a bit smaller and didn't start the fans this often.

Dec 22, 2019 7:24 PM in response to TimUzzanti

I think I may have found the issue.

I went back to my 2017 MacBook Pro 15" from the 2019 MacBook Pro 16" through a time machine restoration. Then the 2017 MacBook Pro started to do the same thing. That became very confusing as the 2017 MacBook Pro did not do this before I upgraded.

I worked out that my 2017 MacBook Pro did not use the dynamic wallpapers, but the 2019 did (as I left everything on default during the upgrade). But when I went back to the 2017 unit from the 2019 unit, the dynamic wallpaper came across via the time machine restoration.

So I went back to the 2019 unit, turned off the dynamic wallpaper, changed it to something static and the fan speed dropped. Restart the system as well. If you don't restart it can take a while for the fan to drop, i'm thinking there is some sort of memory leaking here which the restart flushes out.

I'm thinking that the dynamic wallpaper + external monitor has some sort of software bug. Note that i'm using a Dell monitor via USB-C to DisplayPort, maybe the Apple monitors don't have the same issue.

It would also explain another weird issue, when connected to an external monitor and in sleep mode, the 2019 unit kept running hot with high fan noise. I resolved it by disabling power nap in the power settings.

What i'm guessing is that when connected to an external monitor, the computer keeps using power nap to update the dynamic wallpaper in sleep mode. So dynamic wallpapers seems to cause fan noise when awake connected to an external monitor as well as in sleep mode.

The behaviour seems to happen to the 2017 unit as well when I switched to a dynamic wallpaper.

Can the people who are having this issue give this a try and see what you get? Also, maybe what screens and connectors people are using?

Dec 30, 2019 11:07 AM in response to JonChae

After my MacBook Pro 16 arrived, I was plagued with loud fans for nearly six minutes after startup, with a subsequent gradual reduction in the noise. The fans then revved up with minimal CPU usage, like just using Safari. Final Cut was max fan noise. This occurred when I had an external monitor attached. It did not happen when operating the laptop without an external display, at least not to a level that attracted my attention.

I also had a problem with daily multiple spontaneous restarts. I received an error message: BAD MAGIC! (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available. When I spoke with Apple Support about this, the rep said that I could have a “corrupt installation” (his exact words) and suggested that I reinstall OS 10.15.2—but using Internet Recovery, rather than the MacBook’s recovery partition.

So I did the following:

I installed Temperature Gauge Pro so I could follow the CPU temps and fan speeds. (iStat X did not work.) I noticed that my login items (DropBox, OneDrive, Creative Cloud) set off the fans. I turned off “login at startup” for them and the initial period of loud fan noise was tremendously improved.

I reset the SMC.

I reinstalled the OS using Internet Recovery. I did not reformat. It took around 45 minutes. My files, passwords, etc. were unaffected.

I have not had a spontaneous restart since reinstalling the OS on 12/24. The fan noise has improved greatly. Even after allowing DropBox, OneDrive and Creative Cloud to load at startup again, I get maybe 15 seconds of soft 3500 RPM noise rather than the loud several minutes of over 5200 RPM noise that I got previously at startup. There is no fan noise surfing or watching YouTube in Safari. When transcoding a 4.5 minute clip in FCP, I can hear the fans after approximately two minutes but they never reach max level—they briefly hit 5000 out of 5600 and then subside. If I eliminate DropBox, OneDrive and Creative Cloud at startup again, the max fan speed while transcoding in FCP is around 4000.

Maybe this is effective only if you received the Bad Magic error code. But it only took 50 minutes to turn off the login items, reset the SMC and reinstall the OS, and there was no downside. Maybe it’s worth a try. My MacBook Pro 16 is now the machine I hoped it would be. Good luck.

Jan 10, 2020 8:14 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Solution, then backstory... Turbo Boost Switcher Pro - how $9.95 saved my MacBook Pro!

I purchased the 16in 2.4GHz i9, 2TB/32GB/8GB on 12/31. As a music producer, the fan noise was simply unbearable. After 6.5hrs at the Apple Store yesterday (2 hrs troubleshooting, then 4.5hrs migrating to a replacement). I came home with a new one on the chance I had one with bad thermal paste or something. I had almost thrown in the towel because it takes 18+ hours to install all my software, but thanks to Migration Assistant it only took 4 at the store. I was coming from a Late-2014 iMac 5k (the best computer I've ever owned). I said, I would gladly trade performance for a quiet computer... well, I found it with Turbo Boost Switcher Pro. I still have the power when I need/want it, but most of the time, I want silent fans and longer battery life. Now I have it!

[edited because I accidentally hit post prematurely]

Jan 12, 2020 8:26 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Having the same problem. And what seems to have helped a lot is unchecking 'Automatic Graphic Switching' in the Energy Saver pan in System Preferences.

Have a 2.4 GHz, 32 GB, Radeon 8 GB, 2 TB. It's connected to two external Dell monitors through HDMI adapters. Just running a youtube video in Safari would send the fans spinning up to 4500 or more. Playing a song in Logic took it up to 5500 and more. Distractingly noisy.

If I unplugged the two monitors, while the video was running, the fans immediately started to slow down and things became quieter. So something to do with external monitors I suppose. Talked to support and they recommended, initially, to reset the SMC. This did not help.

But then I unchecked the Automatic Graphics Switching (with the monitors plugged in) and the fans immediately started slowing down. They are now running about 2800 and are pretty quiet with the youtube video playing. I did start a Logic session and playing and the fans started getting noisy again, but perhaps that's a bit more expected.

Still some tests to do, and it's not ideal, but I'd be interested to know if this helps anybody else.

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Jan 16, 2020 9:45 AM in response to TimUzzanti

We got "sort of" an update from the Apple Business Team: They can't get any information about the cases that have been opened by Apple Engineers from these community topics, but they're continuing to ask to try and get us some kind of an update. They did say that what seems to be happening is very similar to what happened with the 15-inch MacBooks and the introduction of both i9 and i7 processors. Much of what was occurring was related to the GPU and the high CPUs were pushing the MBPs beyond its thermal limits. Apple has an EFFA (Early Field Failure Analysis) process which can take up to 180 days. In that timeframe they take the piece of hardware, send it to the engineers, who then evaluate the issues and attempt to solve the problems. I think the consensus is, there is a problem with the 16-inch MBPs, so you have leverage with extended return periods.

We have new employees and need new hardware ASAP. We requested an extended return policy so that we can move forward beyond this testing phase with a few 16-inch MBPs. However, we will be using eGPUs with most of these new purchases until Apple fixes the hardware issues. Not everyone has this luxury and this is only a temporary solution for us.

We've done some additional work doing actual tests with Xcode and Adobe products and have been able to get the CPUs and COREs to 100 degrees Celsius for extended periods. That is no bueno for the hardware. Even at full fan speeds, they can't keep up with the heat load with external monitors.

Because we have a number of eGPUs, we are now using one with every MacBook to eliminate the heat. We have able to reduce the heat by 50% and the 16-inch MBPs will stay within good working conditions. Shutting the lid with the eGPUs will essentially disable the internal Radeon Pro and is necessary to reduce overall heat conditions.

There is no question there is an issue and it seems to be with ALL configurations. The lower Radeon Pros will produce slightly less heat, lower CPUs will produce slightly less heat, but adding one or two monitors, and even USB-C hubs, will add to heat conditions. As many of you have noticed, the power draws on these laptops are excessive because of the power demands related to the GPU etc.

To summarize, although the GPU is the biggest culprit, everything else adds to the problem. This topic has been referenced from a number of other discussions in MacRumors. If there is some peace of mind, it's clear they're seeing the issue and it's a big problem. This is something Apple will need to fix or resolve even beyond standard warranty periods because the 16-inch MBPs are not working properly since their release.

Thanks,

Tim

[Personal Information Edited by Moderator]

Jan 25, 2020 10:17 AM in response to fmorga

Again, I think my MacBook is not nor was defective. The issue was in software I used (Node.js with external package which used 240% of CPU which made the fans go crazy). After I found solutions how to fix it I had another problem (again with node.js and it's node_modules folder), which made Spotlight indexes those files, which is useless, so I removed it from indexing and the macbook went quit. These are the fans with normal use without external monitor connected.

When I connect the external monitor fans are spinning around 2500rpm while VS code, Visual Studio and other software is in use. It gets more loud when I compile Xcode project, but only just for a few seconds.

So again, you who has problems, try to look at the activity monitor and try to find apps which are using a lot of CPU for no reason and try to fix the problem if you can.

janek235

Level 1

4 points

Feb 1, 2020 4:16 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Actually, there is a way to throttle the cpu on every Mac. You can use Volta app where you can set power limit manually. I’ve been using it on my every MacBook Pro (2016, 2018, 16”2019)

But this is not the case here. The issue here is that there is some sort of unjustified high power draw when both internal and (probably) any external display are used at the same time (long story short).

On 2016 and 2018 model connecting an external monitor results in 5W increased power draw of the entire machine. But on the 16” it’s 20W. Tested on exactly the same external monitor, resolution and refresh rate. It’s huge waste of power on nothing, just generating more heat.

Feb 17, 2020 11:59 AM in response to margaritafromsan antonio

I was facing the same issue with an external monitor. After following the two steps of the SMC reset description for computers with T2 chip on Apples website, my MacBook Pro is working fine now.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

Thanks a lot!

raimiss

Level 1

8 points

Mar 13, 2020 9:33 AM in response to TimUzzanti

It's all about resolution of external monitor. I did some testing on my own 16".

1) If I run it with internal display only I get ~20w total power usage

2) Running it with internal + 1920x1280 = ~50w (20 for gpu)

3) Running it with just external 1920x1280 = ~50w (no drop)

4) Running it with external scaled down to 1920x1080 = ~30w (5w for the gpu)

5) Running a 3d game (world of tanks blitz for the reference) + only external display running 1920x1080 ~= 35w (7w for the gpu).

So basically idling on anything above fullhd (1920x1080) results in 3-4 times bigger power consumption than running a 3rd game on full hd. This is so annoying.

DPJ

Level 4

1,374 points

Mar 17, 2020 7:34 AM in response to Futurama

100% agree! Chrome is the worse resource hog and not only does it activate the dGPU but it causes Macs to heat up and drain battery. Same happens on Windows machines. People complain on Reddit about fast battery drain and heat and Chrome is usually their culprit. If Chrome's extensions are much more important to people over battery life and a cool running computer then some people's priorities are certainly in an odd place. I would use Chrome for very select things if necessary, otherwise Safari and other alternative browsers run far better.

Apr 6, 2020 6:29 PM in response to SF6

You are totally right. I don't have HWinfo so I can't see the clock rate of the GPU. I'm relying on GPU wattage (SMC key PG0R) to determine the power profile of the GPU.

I changed the resolution of my two external monitors and found:

2 external monitors both @ 1080p 60Hz,: GPU runs at 5W (same resolution & freq.)

1 @ 1080p 60Hz, 1 @ 1080p 50Hz: GPU runs at 19W (same resolution, different freq.)

1 @ 1080p 60Hz, 1 @ 1024x768 60Hz: GPU runs at 5W (different resolution, same freq.)

Built in monitor @ 1792x1200 60Hz, 1 external @ 1080p 60Hz 19W (different resolution, same freq.)

Built in monitor @ 720x450 60Hz, 1 external @ 1080p 60Hz 19W (different resolution, same freq.)

It seems there are some "magic" combinations of resolutions & freq. allowing the GPU to runs at a lower power profile. And as long as there are 3 monitors, regardless what the combination is, GPU will run at full power. This sounds really like an AMD driver/firmware issue. nVidia had similar issues and they were able to fix it.

Apr 6, 2020 6:56 PM in response to pancakes-addiction

I just ran a quick test (have work to get to so not thorough), but can confirm in clamshell mode with two extgernal monitors GPU Z records the memory clock pegged at 1472mhz running on native resolutions, setting both monitors to a 16:9 aspect ratio fixes the issue, the memory clock drops to below 200mhz and the fans become silent.

[Edited by Moderator]

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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise