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Level 2

252 points

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.

We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.

Interested to hear others experiences.

Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

4,224 replies

Dec 16, 2019 7:25 AM in response to Erik A A Moe

Yeah, definitely something going on with the external monitors. Looking in Activity Monitor I see that the WindowServer process has more than 7 days of GPU time - this on a machine with an uptime of only 3 days.

Dec 16, 2019 6:42 PM in response to cora259

Running only Safari and my fans are running on high. I get this a lot on the new 16" MacBook Pro. Tempuratures as high at 215°F. It can take awhile to cool down. On of my fan's max RPM speed is 5616 and the other is 5200. I don't know why the fans are different but they are. The min is 1836 on one and the other is 1700. You'd think Apple would put in identical fans.

Right above the touchbar my maxed out 16" MBP gets super high. So hot it can burn your fingers. Even the touchbar itself gets hot.

What is strange is the machine runs hot when it's only running Safari. This is a farce. I have a 2008 Mac Pro that has way more fans inside and it doesn't make any noise. And I have been able to run Mojave and Catalina on it. I just wanted to have something solid and reliable moving forward as Apple has been removing things like Display Port support on the 2008's natively and I really did not want to hack it any further to keep using it. So I bit the bullet and got the best 16" money could buy but I don't think Apple ran it through its paces before giving it the green light.

I have been in touch with Apple and I really don't want to return this thing. I am hoping the heating issues and fan noise is something that can be fixed via a software update from Apple.

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Dec 17, 2019 7:46 AM in response to TimUzzanti

All,

I wanted to give an update.

I’ve been working with an Apple Support Representative who reached out to me based on this thread. We have gone through a number of things and I have provided videos of scenarios where the 16 inch MacBook fans will go full speed at 10% to 15% CPU utilization.

It doesn’t matter what you run on the MacBook, but if you are hovering around 10% to 15% CPU, or have significant disk i/o or wi-fi traffic, the fans can go full speed. As others have mentioned, the heat above the Touch Bar gets fairly significant as well.

We’re a software development company and 50% of our employees exclusively us MacOS and 50% of our employees use Bootcamp for Windows. In Bootcamp, the fans are normally always at full speed which is not how pervious generations of MacBook’s have worked.

Not only is there excessive noise, but we’re also seeing CPU throttling at times, which shouldn’t be happening.

What isn’t helping matters is that MacOS (Catalina) is still very buggy, even after the 10.15.2 release. Mail and Photos on Catalina are nothing but trouble. A variety of our employees, including myself, are unable to get the Mail application on Catalina to completely download our mailboxes from Office365. In addition, many of us are having issues with Photos either not finishing the downloads from iCloud or complete Facial Recognition in the People area. Each of these are adding a bit of CPU to the machine so we’re often seeing the 16 inch MacBooks always running 5% or so even when we’re not using the machines. In the meantime, we have been using Microsoft Outlook for mail but Photos has been hit and miss. With the 16 inch MacBooks we’ve been testing (before we purchase them for all employees) we’ve tried added and removed Photo libraries dozens of times in an effort to see if we can ever get the processes to finish.

That said, the new MacBooks are incredibly fast in both CPU and HD speeds. Even Bootcamp performs fairly well, which is why we intend to eventually move the entire company to the new 16 inch MacBook’s. However, the heat issues are concerning and so are the bugs in Catalina. The CPU throttling, fan noise, and the heat above the Touch Bar are all killers and seem like they could be resolved with firmware updates. Once these get resolved, we’ll pull the trigger on a pretty large purchase…

My goal isn’t and wasn’t to scare anyone away from these new 16 inch MacBooks because I believe they’re fantastic machines. I just want to point out some issues we are seeing, with the hopes that Apple can get them fixed ASAP!

Thanks,

Tim Uzzanti

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM in response to cappuccinodrinker

All,

We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.

This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.

In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.

It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables). From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.

Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU: We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU. The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors. Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports. This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.

When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.

We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.

Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.

Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.

Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.

Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!

Tim

Jan 15, 2020 1:20 PM in response to TimUzzanti

Update of my situation.

I have ENABLED again Turbo boost with Turbo Switcher Pro then restarted the computer.

So with turbo boost on I followed this protocol: https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201295 ( I hold the keys for 15 seconds not 7, just in case)

This had an effect on % of core utilization, temp and consequently fan speed.

So far so good for now. I will keep this MisterBastardPro in check for few days in case it starts throttling again and overheating for nothing.

I have more windows opened in comparison to when I had a problem.

As you can see, temp is 32 deg Celsius and fans are running 1830 rpm.

This DOES NOT EXCUSE APPLE BY ANY MEANS!!!

Feb 10, 2020 12:03 PM in response to maksimyuryev

I was reluctant from participating anymore in this thread as my comments are getting deleted for no good reason.

But felt the urge to give you shout out for the amazing job you have done to get some work arounds for this consistent issue. Thank you!

You have done something that Apple should have done and acknowledged, but somehow Apple didn't! so again Thank you!

With that said, I don't believe using third party tools to bring a brand new machine to a normal behavior (no noise is expected while the device is idle) is a solution. Add to that if any of these third party tools caused any hardware failure, it wouldn't be fair to expect Apple to fix this failure; so it is better to have official solution so we can hold Apple warranty accountable for the machines.

TailsDog

Level 1

18 points

Mar 5, 2020 4:17 PM in response to iTech23

iTech23 wrote:

We also realized that even when an external monitor is not connected if you go to apple website, specifically to the 16-inch section: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/ and scroll to the part where there is a video of the avengers movie, if you leave the video playing for a few minutes the machine will get really hot and the fans will go over 3700 RPM just for doing that!

You're right, just that short video loop makes my machine heat up like crazy, then I look in activity monitor and again the WindowServer has just gone bonkers! This is a record for me it's 2.5+ MILLION GPU HOURS! That can not be correct. Also it is using the most CPU time of any of the processes and 870 MB of RAM which seems high also considering I only have about 10 windows open.

It's so random though as it seemed fine for a while today.

Mar 6, 2020 9:27 AM in response to MB-NYC500

One more data point. Running a Youtube video in Chrome on 1080 quality causes the WindowServer process to spike. Every tall blue line is WindowServer showing up for a split second. Additionally, viewing the Avengers Movie sample section of the MBP 16" ad page at https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/ does the same thing, so it's not unique to Chrome or Youtube encoding causing the problem.

krisbal

Level 1

9 points

Mar 18, 2020 5:04 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

Change log

That is me browsing the web, even with turbo boost off lol, and apple wants me to accept that this is normal? Countless resets, couple system restores, system report to apple, i submit almost 2Gb of files, video, screenshots, its been 2 months, no resolution at all, i am caught in their nonsense loop of inefective friendliness, i know their scripts already, i am giving up on Apple.

Mar 25, 2020 11:52 AM in response to TailsDog

Looking at static webpage on my LG 5k, Radeon pulls 18-20W on the High Side (per iStats). Running the Avengers clip on half way down on https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/ jumps to 30W. Even looking at static web pages, fans come on and the system idles around 65c with fans always running. Adding any video (web page, zoom, etc.) raises temps and fan speed quickly

Static webpage:

With HD video playing from apple.com:

vedmich

Level 1

4 points

May 9, 2020 11:26 AM in response to TimUzzanti

I have the issue, I bought MacBook on the start of sale. My version:

Processor: 2.3 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9

Graphics: AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB

As external monitors, I use two LG UltraFine 5K Display, and connected both monitors as describe here

Temperature on all sensors looks like:

The hottest sensors are Thunderbolt Left and Right. The numbers are very close to the maximum.

One more screenshot:

The RMP: 3K+

My question, guys maybe someone of you use external video card and work with external display use the video card, what's about temperature on thunderbolt and with RPMs?

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,179 points

Jun 19, 2020 6:08 AM in response to denizcan

denizcan wrote:

Than why are you posting "normal" notes here, and spend their time? People are bothered with the noise, and you are posting "it's normal, deal with it" posts.. People try to make you understand that it is not normal.. The previous generations did not have this, other laptops do not have.. Obviously this is a design fault, and most probably a software issue.. What you are trying to do is telling people who want a black car that Apple's red car is the normal, but black is not..

No, you're demanding something of the machine it was never advertised to do because past ones did it; that's silly.

However the point is effectively moot now that the issue has been recognized as at least a low-level concern if not a bug, confirming Apple is definitely aware of and is working the issue and that there is a process to try and raise higher level awareness of your concern through Apple Support.

Why it is very hard to discuss any point with you? It's like driving a car by turning the wheel all the way to the right, and all the way to the left.. There is no position in between.. People and I are not concerned with the noise level when no external monitor is connected.. Except the touchbar, this machine works nice when you use it in laptop configuration.. Even if a person is not going to use an external monitor, I can safely suggest this machine..

It's not every external monitor, as my own experience has shown. I don't know what the contributing factor is, I've made some guesses but it's unclear why many see it instantly and I and a few others have not at all.

Once again, perhaps there's something special about 2560 pixel horizontal resolution monitors, I couldn't say, but it's curious that the two I tried, one at 2560x1600 and one at 2560x1440, caused no undue heating.

I don't say that to try to say the issue doesn't exist, just that for some reason I can't reproduce it, and that information should also help those trying to narrow it down.

As far as I remember, thermal shutdown causes a reset condition.. It looks like the thermals, fan curves, turbo boost system are designed in laptop condition.. The extra useless 20W heat generation of the GPU is not taken into account. Very seldomly, a few times a week, the laptop stops responding and resets when external monitor is connected.. At that time CPU temperatures rises upto 99C..

While that appears to be related to thermal issues, it is not how thermal shutdown normally operates.

When the Mac senses it has gotten too warm and must shut down, it goes into thermal shutdown and you will see this message:

It won't just reset or shut off and leave you wondering what just happened.

In Turkey Apple does not have the fancy service base as you have in US.. I know what they will do, just power up the laptop, try a load test, and in 10mins they will say "it's working grate".. We had no success in the past if the problem is not apparent but intermittent..

That I can't comment on, I only know how US Apple Support operates.

You might try leaving feedback for Apple here and let them know their Turkish operations are falling short of ideal:

Product Feedback - Apple

Jun 19, 2020 2:15 PM in response to jc_9

jc_9 wrote:

Previous Macbook Pro 15" didn't have this issue.

I've been lurking in this thread for the last week or so because my 2018 15" MacBook Pro cannot handle having an external monitor connected without the fans blasting.

What's worse for me (with my 15") is that my device likes to clock itself down to somewhere between 800MHz-1.1GHz when it's doing something "taxing" like doing a video call on Google Meet or simply idling with OBS open. See:

And the CPU usage at around that time:

The kernel seems to enjoy downclocking my CPU to ~1GHz while simultaneously flooding it with its own processing (presumably this). In the Intel Power Gadget screenshot above you'll see that there is a discontinuity in the graph. That's due to the kernel taking up 100% of all available processing for a long enough time that the Intel app wasn't able to capture a sample at those timestamps (see: the sudden red spike in the CPU history).

The fun part? Whenever this happens the CPU is typically somewhere between 60-75ºC, which is well within the general safe operational margins, as far as I'm aware.

For what it's worth, I'm on Mojave (10.14.6) and can't currently upgrade because I have dependencies on 32-bit apps. I am also working with Apple Support on trying to track down what's going on.

While I'm still on a 2018 15" MacBook Pro that has the fans constantly spinning between 5500-6000rpm, I completely commiserate with you all and hope that Apple determines a fix for the issue soon.

Dec 13, 2019 11:16 AM in response to TimUzzanti

This just in!

In response to User concerns, Apple appears to have taken some new MacBook pro 2019 13-in models into the back of a lab somewhere and tried to find out why they were troblesome. The initial findings were published as this article, which contains MANY insights, but they are subtle.

You may need to charge these machine initially for more than EIGHT HOURS and do a software update cycle (new firmware updates?) and maybe an SMC reset as well.

If your MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2019, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports) keeps shutting down - Apple Support

These recommendations may apply to there models as well.

Dec 19, 2019 3:49 AM in response to TimUzzanti

So, let me join here. I have this issue since getting my new 16".

MacBookPro16,1 - 6-Core Intel Core i7 2,6 GHz - 16 GB - AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB

I responded to this thread and got contacted by an Apple support guy via phone. We talked for 60min and I send him all the info he wanted. Including videos from the Macbook making the fan noises.

From what I read here and here on this thread (12 pages as of this writing) plus the Apple guy asking alot about my USB-C dongle I think the issue comes from this topic. Maybe other cables work better and the GPU/CPU have not so many tasks?

Does anybody use other cables, dongels or docks and could try different connections? I only got the one.

Excuse my not native English.

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise