MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.


We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.


Interested to hear others experiences.


Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM

All,


We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.


This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.


In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.


It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables).  From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.


Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU:  We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU.  The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors.  Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports.  This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.


When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.


We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.  


Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.  


Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.


Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.


Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!


Tim

4,224 replies

Dec 26, 2019 9:25 PM in response to TimUzzanti

First, I have to chuckle at some of the Apple apologists in here blindly defending this new 16" thermal design. As if all these complaints are somehow from delusional users. lol. C'mon now people. I absolutely love my Apple products too, but I'm also going to call a spade a spade.


I'm a professional user. I use my MacBook daily as part of my duties as an Email/IM engineer, often under heavy usage while running virtual machines, etc. I've been using MBPs for years now and I have to say that this new 16" that I recently purchased is the first MacBook I've ever owned that has annoyingly audible fan noise while driving an external monitor. And I'm talking doing little things like having a single Safari tab open in YouTube. Is it an awful amount of fan noise? I'd say no to that, but I expect a 4k laptop to perform BETTER than the one I purchased two years ago. Not worse. That's the issue. These fans are running around 3k without doing much at all while the 2017 fans run around the expected 1800. It's a downgrade in the experience, no two ways about it.


For reference, I replaced a 2017 15.4 MBP (maxed at the time) with this new 16". That 2017 MBP could easily drive my two 32" 4k monitors daisy-chained via a single Thunderbolt cable with inaudible fan noise 95% of the time. The only time the fans cranked up was when I taxed the machine running multiple VMs, handbrake, etc. That was understandable, of course. This new design is simply a far worse experience when it comes to fan noise. Totally unacceptable.


I do like the 16" design in some ways. The speakers are sublime. But overall I just can't see this new design as anything but a downgrade overall. I would just go back to my 2017 but I gave it to my parents on Christmas to replace their 2009 MBP. lol Not to worry, I just set up a return with Apple for the MBP 16 and I've ordered a new MBP 15.4 for $1k off (thank god they are clearing these out right now. Fortunate timing!). Frankly, I'm one that preferred the butterfly keyboard anyway so I don't mind at all. And 6-core with a Vega20 will do just fine....and will have the same thermal profile as my 2017! Actually even quieter from the reviews I've come across.


Anyway, I remain a happy Apple customer overall, but this is a quite a misstep for such a big re-design Apple. I expect better!

Dec 27, 2019 8:29 AM in response to Fishius

After attempting to be part of the solution; spending a ton of time testing, providing information in the community, communicating with Apple Engineers and Apple Business Team, our most recent post was deleted as "Speculative".


We have spent over $300,000 on Apple hardware over the years both business and consumer and now our voice has been muted. How can we move forward using Apple? Instead of deleting our posts, how about send it to management?

Dec 27, 2019 10:22 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Technical content of what you post are not evaluated when you post here. Your posts here are audited by a team that ONLY ensures compliance with the Terms of Use, and Removal is based on compliance with the Terms of Use, and nothing more.


Apple employs thousands of people worldwide. Reaching the ear Engineering Movers and Shakers by posting here is extremely unlikely. Your Business Support people are far more likely to get the ear of Engineering. Readers here are other Users like you. If other Readers can not provide suggestions that lead to a solution, you need to contact Apple directly using other methods.


Dec 28, 2019 6:35 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Wanted to share something interesting I've found on youtube. While researching alternatives to MBP16" I've come across this video of Razer Blade 15 (9750H, same CPU, but paried with GTX1660Ti instead of Radeon) interacting with an external monitor.


It looks (and sounds) like exactly the same issue, see for yourself: https://youtu.be/IRViiPj5cDM


I guess it just proves that we're at the very limits of thermal performance for laptop chassis, until Intel (or AMD) get their act together.

Dec 28, 2019 6:54 AM in response to Ahmed Ali Awad

Both Blade and base MBP16 have similar specs (6core Intel + comparable GPUs) and a similar cooling solution (dual fans fed by heatpipes), and, unfortunately, I don't think you can affect thermodynamics with US dollars or Apple's infamous reality distortion field.


Jokes and pricepoints aside, I wish designers would just make laptops thicker to allow for a better cooling solution. This 16" incher is already not that portable, adding a bit of thickness would not be the end of the world.

Dec 30, 2019 1:08 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Or you could read the Terms of Use for Apple Support Communities and comply by them; posts are only removed if they violate them:


Apple Support Communities Use Agreement - Apple Community


If you're really spending that much on Apple Hardware, surely you know how to use official channels to contact Apple about your concerns:


Contact - Official Apple Support


Rather than complain on a forum featuring other Apple users that is not a direct conduit to either Apple Support or Engineering.

Dec 30, 2019 7:55 AM in response to TimUzzanti

You have unrealistic expectations as to how interactions with Apple Engineering will go.


Basically it's usually:


  1. Apple Engineering reaches out to ask for more data.
  2. You provide the data.
  3. You will be thanked and will hear nothing more until a fix is announced at some future date.


Apple will not keep you informed, tell you what they are thinking or otherwise reach out to provide updates except maybe to ask you to test a possible fix. That's simply Apple's culture; even other groups within Apple aren't always updated as to what other groups are working on except on a need-to-know basis.


What you call "going MIA" is the way interactions with Apple Engineering work.


Particularly if it's something they can reproduce in-house, there's no need on their part for further interaction.


If you want that type of hand holding, you'd best choose another hardware vendor or an ISV prepared to offer that level of support.


Also, once again, if a post was deleted, it was because it violated the Apple Support Communities Terms of Use, one of which is that speculation as to the cause of issues or future products or software updates is forbidden as speculation.


These forums exist solely for Apple users to receive help from other Apple users, not from Apple, and not to report issues or concerns. Interaction with Apple, while it does occur, is on the level of a celebrity sighting at a mall in Los Angeles; it happens but should never be expected.


You and others here are having issues, that is clear, but your official channel is through Apple Support, not here.


Posts that violate the Terms of Use will be and will continue to be removed by the moderators, that's literally why they are here.


For what it's worth, I understand when driving the MBP 16 the fans go nuts and thermal shutdowns often result; ask anyone that's ever used a MacBook with an external monitor and they will tell you the exact same thing will occur; photo editing on an external 19" monitor with a MacBook was a recipe for thermal shutdown of a properly operating unit in less than ninety minutes, repeatedly.


Just because you can do something doesn't mean it can be done on an extended basis without consequence, and that's why it's both important to test a particular configuration and why Apple has a fourteen day full return policy.


From what it sounds like, you would be much happier with a new Mac Pro, which is specifically designed to operate with those kinds of loads on an ongoing and extended basis.

Dec 30, 2019 8:42 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

William,


It is clear you haven't read this thread otherwise you would understand how little people are doing on their 16 inch MBP's when the fan or throttling issues start.


Are you honestly saying Apple Engineers shouldn't respond to an email from a customer letting them know it is still being worked on or if it has been determined to be an issue and/or it will be resolved?


I think your posts should be moderated because they are completely off base and ruining the thread. All we have been doing is talking about hardware issues and the inability to get responses from the Apple Engineers who have contacted us and started tickets from this thread to understand and work on the problem.

Jan 5, 2020 8:48 PM in response to TimUzzanti

Same issue here. I am replacing a 2016 15" MBP and just bought a new 16" MBP today (i9 4GB 5500M). My CPU is about at 2%. I am using an external monitor with the laptop closed and the fans are as loud as they get. It is same volume as 2016 MBP when running the CPU at 100% for 30 minutes (importing 300 RAW files in Lightroom, for example).


I haven't done anything strenuous on the laptop, am just waiting for my files to download from Dropbox and doing casual web browsing (Chrome). The laptop is really hot as well. It's placed on a wooden desk with nothing anywhere near the vents and there are no obstructions whatsoever. The same spot works great with 2 other older 15" MBPs (2015 & 2016).


Is my laptop defective or did Apple release a laptop with an fatally ineffective cooling system?


Not only is this annoying, but if 2% makes the laptop overheat, what will happen when I run it at 100%? Disabling the GPU is not an option as I paid a ton for this laptop because I need a powerful CPU and GPU.

Jan 8, 2020 7:37 AM in response to axlroden

@axlroden: Exactly this - if GPU is constantly using 18+W then CPU is throttling much more than it would with radeon switched off... Personally I have not seen a turbo frequency higher than 4.1 GHz while connected to external monitor while the base CPU should do 4.5 GHz. In my point of view that is a false advertising.


@William Kucharski: recommending us to buy an overpriced Mac Pro is hilarious - we all have bought this machine because of its portability and enough performance to replace desktop machines even with external display connected.


Just for a reference - my old 2013 15" MBP runs 10C cooler than 16" when connected to QHD or 4K display on idle.

Jan 12, 2020 12:23 PM in response to Jim Norman

The Issue is not only with external displays. It is also with any other external device as external hard disk. I notices that the USB- C interface on the right side near display, is more problematic than the other one on the right and the one on the left. Anyway the noise is on all of them not acceptable. But the right USB-C near display is the worse of them. I have not measure it, but it is my perception.

Also I have change from hub, and my perception is that it could be improved the noise with different hubs, but anyway in any case is acceptable. At least in two of my hubs. I have already the appointment on the Apple store to return my second Mac after talk with them and check that there is at the moment no solution.

Jan 14, 2020 8:10 AM in response to TimUzzanti

@TimUzzanti Based on your comment, it's obvious you don't know what drives the market. Your comment is irrelevant to the discussion and to the problem itself (reminder: loud fan noise). So please, keep your comments in line with the subject.


Back to the discussion.

After returning my MBP16, which has crazy laud fans. I wanted to go and buy the Mac Pro (as an only quiet option to, be honest). But I really don't want to spend 3x money on a computer, which will be not mobile. This is driving me nuts, to be honest :) I just give Apple 1-2 months to solve that (fix or honest statement, so we all know what is happening).


My final conclusion at the moment is:

If you want to have a quiet and comfortable work environment, invest in Mac Pro - simple, but expensive. But, if you need/want to be mobile, you need to make some sacrifices and accept the heat and crazy noise.


My only hope:

Apple will fix that issue with a software update, and we all can enjoy the MBP16. BTW: Latest rumors suggesting a new "Pro Mode" option in macOS, which might be a reason for the whole issue (assumption).


Apple, please be honest.

We'll stay with you, but we need some guidance on what solution/machine we should choose.


xoxo

Jan 15, 2020 1:20 PM in response to TimUzzanti

Update of my situation.

I have ENABLED again Turbo boost with Turbo Switcher Pro then restarted the computer.

So with turbo boost on I followed this protocol: https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201295 ( I hold the keys for 15 seconds not 7, just in case)

This had an effect on % of core utilization, temp and consequently fan speed.

So far so good for now. I will keep this MisterBastardPro in check for few days in case it starts throttling again and overheating for nothing.

I have more windows opened in comparison to when I had a problem.

As you can see, temp is 32 deg Celsius and fans are running 1830 rpm.


This DOES NOT EXCUSE APPLE BY ANY MEANS!!!

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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

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