Level 2

252 points

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.

We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.

Interested to hear others experiences.

Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

Top-ranking reply

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Posted on Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM

All,

We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.

This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.

In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.

It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables). From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.

Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU: We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU. The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors. Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports. This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.

When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.

We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.

Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.

Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.

Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.

Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!

Tim

View in context

4,224 replies

Mar 5, 2020 8:17 PM in response to RICHD101

My MBP 16 never had the problem of the fans running hard. The only time they would turn up was during heavy use. Even going to the the Apple website and looking at that page does not make any difference on mine. I did have other issues that have since been resolved. If I say much more, my post will get removed.

Mar 6, 2020 4:38 AM in response to iTech23

Safari for me wouldn't autoplay but I found it and just let it loop. I'm on battery and thought I would give an update because of our thoughts on the integrated graphics vs the AMD GPU. I was disconnected from a second screen for this test because I wanted to do this making sure I could turn off the 5500.

I tried it both with integrated graphics and the AMD GPU - it made no difference. I let it loop for a while and the fans never kicked up - though it did warm up (see the screensshots)

Question: Is the Radeon High Side actually the GPU?

I asked because I turned off the AMD gpu but the Radeon High Side was still using the same wattage.

Observations:

The first screenshot is Safari showing much less power usage running the same page than does Chrome. I was surprised how much more wattage Chrome sucked.
Even though the GPU is set to integrated only in both system settings and GFX and it shows using "Intel UHD Graphics 630", Radeon Front Side is still pulling 25+watts - that is why I question whether RFS is actually the GPU or if it's something else.
Even so, my fans did not kick up, as seen in the screenshots. Not that I'm upset because it's not hot to the touch. I assume this is actually normal operation. Much hotter and the fans would kick up.

Safari:

Chrome:

If it changes running this site and having the dual screens connected I'll update.

Mar 6, 2020 9:27 AM in response to MB-NYC500

One more data point. Running a Youtube video in Chrome on 1080 quality causes the WindowServer process to spike. Every tall blue line is WindowServer showing up for a split second. Additionally, viewing the Avengers Movie sample section of the MBP 16" ad page at https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/ does the same thing, so it's not unique to Chrome or Youtube encoding causing the problem.

TailsDog

Level 1

18 points

Mar 6, 2020 1:00 PM in response to brycesteiner

OK i see you need to leave it open and then it starts recording. So i'm seeing spikes to 100% when on the Apple-16 page video section, yours is more of a consistent ramp up and doesn't seem to go above 50%, yes? I guess the question is why is it doing that.

TailsDog

Level 1

18 points

Mar 6, 2020 3:48 PM in response to brycesteiner

Chipset Model: AMD Radeon Pro 5500M

Type: GPU

Bus: PCIe

PCIe Lane Width: x16

VRAM (Total): 4 GB

Vendor: AMD (0x1002)

Device ID: 0x7340

Revision ID: 0x0040

ROM Revision: 113-D3220E-190

VBIOS Version: 113-D32206U1-019

Option ROM Version: 113-D32206U1-019

EFI Driver Version: 01.01.190

Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported

gMux Version: 5.0.0

Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1

So mine looks about the same but I only have the 4GB version, I wonder if that makes a difference here?

Mar 6, 2020 4:14 PM in response to TailsDog

I also have the 4GB version and my info looks exactly the same:

Chipset Model: AMD Radeon Pro 5500M

Type: GPU

Bus: PCIe

PCIe Lane Width: x16

VRAM (Total): 4 GB

Vendor: AMD (0x1002)

Device ID: 0x7340

Revision ID: 0x0040

ROM Revision: 113-D3220E-190

VBIOS Version: 113-D32206U1-019

Option ROM Version: 113-D32206U1-019

EFI Driver Version: 01.01.190

Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported

gMux Version: 5.0.0

Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1

Now I'm wondering if it's limited to the 4GB models?...

iTech23

Level 1

44 points

Mar 6, 2020 4:38 PM in response to brycesteiner

I tried your suggestion and the drivers seem to handle the video loop better since the GPU is not going 100% just for a video loop but unfortunately the machine still gets hot and after a few minutes the fans go up (you can see in the image that the fans were at 2800 RPM and going up), I don't think a simple video loop should make this Pro machine that hot. Hopefully it's a driver issue and this is not the final revision.

Then I tried the same with the other version and the GPU goes immediately to 100% when the video loop starts.

RICHD101

Level 1

12 points

Mar 6, 2020 4:47 PM in response to iTech23

After 2 visits to Genius Bar and there diagnosis

not finding anything wrong with hardware

I called Apple supporting spent 2 hours running tests with them and unfortunately the fan noise and heating issues continued even without being plugged into an external

monitor.

its been a very frustrating situation.

ill keep you posted!

Apple support suggested I drop off the computer to Apple store repair.

my computer to Apple repai

Dropping off my MBP

DPJ

Level 4

1,374 points

Mar 6, 2020 4:53 PM in response to iTech23

I tried this test on Apple's website playing the video on Safari for 20 minutes. No fan noise at all and a very slight amount of heat over the Touch Bar. Ran the same Avengers movie in Chrome for 10 minutes. No fan noise at all and the same amount of heat over the Touch Bar. BTW I have a keyboard cover over my keys to protect them from grease and wear while typing. Keyboard covers generally reduce a small amount of airflow and still no fans running while playing the Avengers video.

imajez

Level 1

4 points

Mar 6, 2020 5:37 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:

A lot of research gives you mainly text sites. These are generally not an issue.

When you get more than a few Chrome windows with graphics and animation, then it is likely to get hot.

Don't assume research means pages of dry text. There's around 15 youTube pages, a couple of FB pages, Whatsapp, twtter, instagram, loads of shops and review pages, soundcloud, apple forums, macrumours forums, newspapers and I could go on and on....

dcristof

Level 1

8 points

Mar 9, 2020 6:25 PM in response to TailsDog

What I noticed is that Bryce's PCIe Lane Width is x8; all of ours are x16. It is one difference.

AMD Radeon Pro 5500M:

Chipset Model: AMD Radeon Pro 5500M

Type: GPU

Bus: PCIe

PCIe Lane Width: x16

VRAM (Total): 8 GB

Vendor: AMD (0x1002)

Device ID: 0x7340

Revision ID: 0x0040

ROM Revision: 113-D3220E-190

VBIOS Version: 113-D32206U1-019

Option ROM Version: 113-D32206U1-019

EFI Driver Version: 01.01.190

Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported

gMux Version: 5.0.0

Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1

dcristof

Level 1

8 points

Mar 10, 2020 9:17 AM in response to axlroden

Does anyone else who is experiencing the heat and fan issues while plugging in an external monitor with the lid open have a PCIe x8 configuration?

Worth checking I think, even if we would think it shouldn't any impact on performance.

iTech23

Level 1

44 points

Mar 10, 2020 1:45 PM in response to dcristof

Mine is also x16.

Today I after reading the news on Macrumors, I tried the latest but nothing new here, after 2 minutes watching the video loop on Apple website, the machine was at more than 80C and the fans were already at 3200RPM and increasing pretty fast.

Until today I was only using the machine with an external monitor for really shorts periods of time to avoid any issues but it's causing me a lot of productivity issues, so I decided to use it like I normally do, if it breaks Apple will have to figure it out a way to send me a new machine to South America because I'll be working here for the next 2/3 months.

Mar 10, 2020 2:19 PM in response to LucasKotkowski

So I tried Razer Core X Chroma eGPU with Radeon RX 5700 XT inside and I was very optimistic at first.

Monitoring via iStats menu I measured temperatures during usual browser/watching video workload (open lid, 4K display connected):

Without eGPU: temperatures above 70 C, fans above 3200 RPM

With eGPU: temperatures below 50 C, fans sitting around 1800 RPM (basically silent)

But then I started to test it during some more demanding tasks, like using Lightroom, Photoshop and DaVinci Resolve and it was an utter failure – eGPU actually makes the system SLOWER, at least when using it with a lid opened.

I'll try it once again tomorrow in a clamshell mode, but it seems that every video about the topic was right – since it takes the signal twice as long to travel to and from graphics card, GPU intensive tasks are actually slower than when using only laptop's dGPU.

That's a bummer :( It was my last resort, but now I see there's no other option than using MBP 16 only when travelling and sticking to my 2 years old PC at home (which should be slower than my MacBook according to benchmarks, but it's actually waaay faster).

Let's just say, I'm a little bit angry...

SteMae

Level 1

4 points

Mar 11, 2020 12:39 PM in response to TimUzzanti

My brand new mac 16 is having the same issue with the loud fan for no good reason, under minimal occupancy. Which is weird for such a powerful machine, to go nuts even when I only am running spotify and powerpoint.

Most importantly, the touch bar gets so hot that I can't keep my finger on it for longer than a few seconds because it is so extremely hot. For a 2.7k machine, this is a bad experience. Please provide an update that fixes this. This is ridiculous.

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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise