transfer podcasts download via iTunes on my iPod touch 4 to my Mac computer or my iPhone

my old iPod touch has podcasts in its iTunes library that are no longer available on line to re-download. I want to save one set onto my new .Mac desktop running Catalina. There is no iTunes. How can I transfer these files to the new "podcasts' library on the desk top? failing this I have access to a MacBook with iTunes on an earlier OS.

Can any one help me get round this problem please?