Level 1

52 points

'Out of memory' but 4.2gb cloud & 120gb local of unused memory

I have 5gb icloud 'free' memory on a 128gb ipad. I have 'used' 800mb of memory for apps. There is nothing else on the ipad. it is empty of data - no photos, videos, no music, nothing, zero.

Then I download 1 x 7gb video, store it locally (this is important), leaving 120gb of memory on the ipad.

Since downloading this 1 x 7gb file and storing locally, I get an error message the ipad cannot be 'backed up' as there is not enough memory in my cloud account to do this.

What has changed? I have every option for icloud storage switched off, so that ANY or ALL files and folders are stored locally. I have never downloaded before, or been asked to increase memory because its always been empty, and still is:

Both the ipad and icloud memories are empty - except for the usual apps and 1 file. The cloud back up for the apps is 800mb, so why since downloading 1 file, are Apple now telling me icloud is full, and I have to buy more memory to back-up, when there is 4.2gb of empty space available to do a backup of 800mb? (And it has previously always done this without any problem or error).

Am i missing something here? or do i have to pay extra to store 1 x 7gb file in my own 128gb local memory? Or is Apple calculating a 7gb file it doesn't need to back up, and is adding this to my 'free' allowance? Any help appreciated. thx

iPad Air 2, iPadOS 14

Posted on Oct 16, 2020 5:07 AM

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Halliday

Level 4

2,677 points

Posted on Oct 20, 2020 11:20 AM

Just as I expected, davey17x.

Once again you go to the wrong set of switches for the purpose you claim:

Do you not recognize that these settings are about “APPS USING ICLOUD”?
For iCloud Backups, one must go to the iCloud Backup options, in Settings -> [Your Name] Apple ID, iCloud, Media & Purchases -> iCloud -> Manage Storage -> Backups under “CHOOSE DATA TO BACK UP”.

The options you have shown pertain only to direct iCloud storing, and sharing, and synchronizing of App data and/or files using iCloud, in quite a different capacity than for Backups.

Additionally, don’t you know that Backups don’t «spirit away» your «data»? Backups are but a storage of a copy of your data.

Backups are for safe keeping, just in case.

While you are correct that only a single (the latest) backup is necessary, there are times when people, for one reason or another, wish to go back to an even earlier state: it’s like wanting to go back to an earlier version of a document.

Though Backups are compressed—in order to minimize space used—files that are already compressed, to minimize how much space they use, typically cannot be compressed further (or only a tiny bit, at best). Hence, a 7 GB video file (which is, typically, already compressed) will obtain little if any compression when Backed-up.

Hence the reason for expecting that the addition of that single file will put you over the 5 GB allocation.

However, as I’ve already stated, if you wish to take your «chances», in not backing up, that’s up to you.

History shows that the likelihood that you will regret that decision is very nearly 100%, given enough time.

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25 replies

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Nov 18, 2020 2:38 AM in response to Halliday

So, I focus most on making sure misconceptions are not passed on to others.

Yes I'm sure you do... By casting around half-baked, unsubstantiated theories of 'guaranteed' data destruction... and conflating with issues that have nothing to do with the matter in question, but to show you know more than Apple themselves. Sure.

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Oct 18, 2020 5:24 AM in response to zinacef

Perfect!

Halliday

Level 4

2,677 points

Oct 20, 2020 12:54 PM in response to davey17x

I’ve simply been trying to help you understand what is going on and why, so you can make better, more informed decisions, davey17x.

Take care.

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Oct 18, 2020 5:23 AM in response to Halliday

Thanks H

Ha ha you're kidding me now.. No, I'm not misinterpreting a simple toggle switch that says 'apps using icloud' and they're all switched off, as I don't store ANYTHING on the icloud.

The principle is, if its says OFF, that app is not having its contents saved incidentally to the cloud. OFF means OFF, not slightly off and storing on the cloud anyway.

You keep mentioning 'choose data to backup' I've said several times I have - 'don't back anything up' is my answer because the ipad doesn't have anything TO back up and my 7gb is locally stored.

You're probably misinterpreting, as the cloud isn't backing up the contents of apps that are switched off, under any circumstances.

However! the answer to all of this, was as I explained: ipad WAS recalculating files it didn't have, that were local (and doubling the data figure). What I should have done was a complete reboot, and having just completed this, the back up is complete and back to how I suggested it should have been in the first place: A ton of memory, no need for more, plenty of room to complete the backup, no backing up of local files. Job done. Thanks for all your help.

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Oct 19, 2020 4:25 AM in response to Halliday

Whilst I agree you've helped me think 'around' the problem, I don't agree with your synopsis that locally stored things will be backed up as a matter of process. They weren't and aren't.

Since if that were the case, I would still have the problem, and the ipad would still not have backed itself up without any further intervention from me after rebooting. It would instead, still be calling for additional memory to contain the 7gb file.

I still have the 7gb file in the ipad memory, and the problem is completely resolved.

Thanks for your contribution Halliday, although we're probably at cross purposes on the technicalities at this point, which I can't argue with, but to say how it resolved itself having switched off apps using icloud, and without backing up local data.

And yes... of course I back-up software... Cheers :-)

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Oct 19, 2020 4:12 PM in response to Halliday

Halliday, you're splitting hairs now.

OK, I don't back any software up, Apple does that - so whatever they are backing up, must be the right back up.

Now my back-up is resolved you're wondering why I was wondering? I explained: the apps are switched off, and Apple don't back up data in switched off apps, why would they? That's why the option is there! And if everything WAS backed up to the cloud, why would it have 128gb of memory on the device.. (and they simply aren't whizzing everything up to the cloud or the contents of my macbook and desktop would be there too!)

Anyway, I was with you until your last comment, which is with respect nonsense. Data loss is guaranteed? Funny, I haven't noticed that in the advertising for back-up drives, or the 3 I bought, nor Apple mentioning it in the Time Machine instructions, or the salesman telling me my 128gb is completely unreliable and I will lose the data anyway, guaranteed... But if that's what you believe... I'll take my chances.

Cheers

Halliday

Level 4

2,677 points

Oct 19, 2020 9:38 PM in response to davey17x

None of the software on your device is ever backed-up, davey17x.

If the software is deleted or something goes wrong with your device, or whatever, you’ll simply reinstall the software from the App Store—provided the software is still available on the App Store, which is never guaranteed.

Only the App data, and your files (like that 7 GB video file) are ever backed up.

Whether you consider that to be done by you, your device, or Apple is inmaterial.

If the iCloud Backup options, in Settings -> [Your Name] Apple ID, iCloud, Media & Purchases -> iCloud -> Manage Storage -> Backups under “CHOOSE DATA TO BACK UP”, is «switched off», for a given App, then the data for that App will not be backed-up.

However, did you ever even see an option to turn that option off for the Photos App?

The options you are referring to, including the “APPS USING ICLOUD” switches, are not about iCloud Backups, but default storing, and sharing, and synchronizing of their data and/or files using iCloud, in quite a different capacity.

The only relationship between the two is an implicit avoidance of duplication of stored data and files vs. backed-up data and files.

(Do you not understand what Backups are? I have to question that supposition when you write «if everything WAS backed up to the cloud, why would it have 128gb of memory on the device».

Additionally, your «macbook and desktop» have separate settings for iCloud use, and are typically set up to Backup to a local, usually external, drive, using «Time Machine».)

The “guarantee” of data loss is for your devices that are the principle consumers and generators of the data.

It’s the very reason why people sell «back-up drives», why Apple provides the «Time Machine» backup system, and provides for iCloud Backups. (Incidentally, while SSDs, like what is used for your «128gb» device storage, have longer life expectancy than a mechanical disk drive, they do wear out and fail. Fortunately, their usual failure mode is an inability to write new data—so you can still read the old data. However, that is never guaranteed.)

If you don’t care if you loose all your data, including your 7 GB video file, that’s simply up to you. Take your «chances» as you wish.

Just don’t come “crying” for help to “recover” your lost data when—not if—it is gone, due to loss of your device, accident, “bug”, or whatever.

(I suppose you haven’t noticed how often we get such “pleas” for data recovery, here, from people without backups.)

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Oct 20, 2020 1:59 AM in response to Halliday

(I suppose you haven’t noticed how often we get such “pleas” for data recovery, here, from people without backups.)

I don't advocate NOT backing up, but then nor do I subscribe to your data loss doomsaying, or Apple I assume monetising my empty ipad by suggesting I buy more storage to 'back-up' an empty device, that I have kept empty since I bought it - how did I suddenly use 5gb?

I'd posit the device only needs one back up, so save one, delete one - it's not rocket science, and if the cloud is FULL, then don't show it as having only used 143mb of a 5gb allowance, and users wouldn't need to 'come crying for help' as you so nobly put it.

And saying icloud switches don't relate to icloud back-ups doesn't compute - if an app is switched it off, it is effectively disconnected from the cloud, but you're still saying my data is somehow going to be spirited away there? I beg to differ, that's like switching off the car radio, but it continuing to play music.

However, did you ever even see an option to turn that option off for the Photos App? Here you go... it is a thing yes.

I supposed you haven't noticed either, just how many people on here also have my exact same problem? Good day 😊

davey17x Author

Level 1

52 points

Nov 12, 2020 3:11 AM in response to Halliday

The eventual deletion probably got lost while you were conflating issues with your doomsaying and warnings about the guarantee of storage loss (wholly misleading and unsubstantiated) before moving on to guesswork about app back-ups that don't back-up when they are toggled off (misleading). That's a fact that you appear to be in denial of (and you call me out for confirmation bias ha ha.)

Having said that, the deletion did not stop the device still wanting to complete a back up of 14gb that didn't exist either when the file was there, or when it was deleted, the problem remained the same, so to all intents and purposes, your suppositions about miscellaneous back-ups that the device DOES NOT carry out were still wholly wrong.

You're probably confusing 'confirmation bias' with 'reality', I'm not about to contradict the Apple Tech team who looked into it and resolved it, and not by some theory of backing-up of data that wasn't there, or that is there by default when its switched off.

As I stated: Don't assume you are always right, or that you aren't misleading yourself with your own guesswork.

Halliday

Level 4

2,677 points

Nov 18, 2020 3:05 AM in response to davey17x

I never say I know more than Apple, dear davey17x, not even that I know more than the Apple techs you talked to.

(The matter of data loss is a statistical “certainty”, given sufficient time. That is all.)

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'Out of memory' but 4.2gb cloud & 120gb local of unused memory