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Will lossless audio work via Airplay 2 and my receiver?

I have a Marantz receiver that supports Airplay 2, and supposedly, that means it transfers ALAC which should be lossless.


But does this mean it can offer the "master" 24-bit/192kHz lossless audio? Or just the 24-bit/48kHz one? I'm quite sure my stereo system supports this, but with Tidal and deezer I would use the HEOS app that I know transfers things losslessly, but apple music uses it's own thing and I'm not sure. I hate cables, but I want to use Apple Music.


Also, assuming I have good headphones, does the lightning to 3.5mm adapter that is used with the iPhones work like the Airpods Max cable (that is not completely lossless)? Just to make sure before I buy one.


Thank you!



[Re-Titled by Moderator]

Posted on Jun 9, 2021 2:19 AM

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Posted on Jun 9, 2021 8:02 AM

AirPlay (1 and 2) is capable of ALAC (lossless) streaming up to 44.1 kHz (48 kHz for video contents).


Hi-res lossless (over 48 kHz) isn't supported via AirPlay as a protocol, regardless of Apple Music.


That said, Apple Music in its lossless form streamed via AirPlay isn't only limited to 44.1 kHz (as expected like said before): unfortunately it's turned into a lossy (AAC) stream. It has been confirmed from various sources. Don't ask me why.

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Jun 9, 2021 8:02 AM in response to errandum

AirPlay (1 and 2) is capable of ALAC (lossless) streaming up to 44.1 kHz (48 kHz for video contents).


Hi-res lossless (over 48 kHz) isn't supported via AirPlay as a protocol, regardless of Apple Music.


That said, Apple Music in its lossless form streamed via AirPlay isn't only limited to 44.1 kHz (as expected like said before): unfortunately it's turned into a lossy (AAC) stream. It has been confirmed from various sources. Don't ask me why.

Jun 9, 2021 9:04 AM in response to errandum

Yes, right now AirPlay audio means 16/44.1 kHz.


In case specifically of Apple Music streaming it's lossy AAC. Otherwise, it's a lossless capable wireless standard.


Honestly, it doesn't sound bad. I've enjoyed Apple Music even before it turned lossless.


Bluetooth has its limitations in bandwidth.


I have a pretty good Hi-Fi system. To really enjoy lossless Apple Music I've to connect my iPad to my USB DAC via Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. It works well and sample rate switches automatically according to each single song.


On Mac unfortunately Music app doesn't handle exclusively Audio MIDI Setup, forcing the user to manually switch the proper sample rate if a bit perfect experience is wanted.

My hopes are that:

  • Apple introduces eventually automatic sample rate switching in Audio MIDI Setup on Mac
  • Update AirPlay protocol to support hi-res up to 192 kHz (ALAC with Apple Music streaming)

Jun 15, 2021 7:50 AM in response to errandum

Thanks for your insight.


AirPlay doesn't support 96 kHz. That information tells the user the quality available for the played song. I can AirPlay the whole Coltrane's album showing me 192 kHz. That doesn't mean I get 192 kHz via AirPlay. The same goes for AirPod Pro. In order to enjoy 192 kHz I have to use a USB DAC.


Just to be clear: Apple's AirPlay protocol per se is capable of lossless audio since it was born.


It is Music app, specifically with Apple Music content that is somehow messing with AirPlay.

Jun 15, 2021 12:02 AM in response to tuong66

The AirPlay handling specifically by Apple Music streaming service is currently inconsistent.


That said, AirPlay (1 and 2), as a protocol, it's still capable to provide lossless 44.1 kHz audio for your local files or other sources as before the advent of Apple Music.


The problem is specific of Music app related to the audio stream coming from Apple Music subscription. Apple didn't suddenly change general AirPlay specs.


On two other audio related forums I've shared yesterday a sort of cheat sheet about Apple Music streaming and how it handles lossless, AirPlay and Dolby Atmos. I share it here, too:


https://www.marcoklobas.net/sharing/Apple-Music.png


Basically, it seems – and I say "seems" because evidences are mixed – that AirPlay 2 streams AAC (see Naim), AirPlay 1 sometimes ALAC, sometimes AAC and the lossless icon in Music app shows sometimes wrong informations (like lossless present with HomePod while Apple declared that lossless is coming to it later this year).


Let's wait how this whole AirPlay thing evolve and use, in case, the Apple's feedback page.

Aug 13, 2021 4:24 AM in response to JLinger

I see nothing here about AirPlay.


https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212183


However, this article on 9-5 Mac indicates AirPlay to Apple Homepods is supported.


ios-14-6-airplay-lossless-homepod


But the reality is that the vast majority of people can no distinguish between lossy audio and lossless audio. That's how good the lossless algorithms are.


Apple's Eddie Cue:


The reality of lossless is: if you take 100 people and you take a stereo song in lossless and you take a song that’s been in Apple Music that’s compressed, I don’t know if it’s 99 or 98 can’t tell the difference.” Cue revealed that he has regularly done blind tests with the Apple Music team, and they confirm how rare it is for anyone to be able to consistently recognize lossless audio. “You can tell somebody, ‘Oh, you’re listening to a lossless [song],’ and they tell you, ‘Oh, wow. That sounds incredible.’ They’re just saying it because you told them it’s lossless and it sounds like the right thing to say, but you just can’t tell.”

Jun 15, 2021 7:01 AM in response to Marco Klobas

Just an update on this, the apple music app will actually tell you what it is doing in the most confusing way.


In the currently playing window, If it is lossy, it will tell you nothing.


If it is lossless, it will tell you "lossless". But here is where it gets interesting. If you lick the "lossless" icon and word, you can actually see the current sample rate. It can go anywhere from 16-bit/44.1kHz ALAC to 24-bit/192kHz ALAC.


When playing via airplay 2 it will show as lossless ALAC, as you can see from the attached picture. It's playing on my Marantz AVR at 16bit/44,1kHz lossless.


So I'm going to assume that the general knowledge present in this thread is actually wrong. Airplay is actually capable of a lossless stream, just not a 24 bit one.


Also, so far I've only found one 24-bit/192kHz song, though they are all treated the same. The majority of the lossless hi-def songs will be 24-bit/96kHz audio only, even if they show the "masters" icon (tested with an external DAC).

Jun 15, 2021 7:31 AM in response to errandum

Further update. Airplay stream is showing as 24-bit/96kHz!



Either we are all profoundly wrong, or the music app just displays the highest available quality instead of the actual quality being played. Because if I use my AirPods (which are bluetooth and not wifi), it will not show the lossless logo at all.


I'm very much confused.

Nov 3, 2021 5:07 PM in response to John McParland

Hi there. I also have a Nova and just received the Topping D10. My iPhone XS has the lightening jack so I have the lightening to USB 3 camera adapter with the USB-c charging port also. Now I want to also be able to connect my iPad Pro to play. I’m wondering if this would be better than a USB-C to USB adapter into a charging connection then into the Topping. A best way to connect the iPad because with the Nova screen not displaying artwork when using the Topping the iPad screen will be better than the iPhone…

Jun 13, 2021 11:06 AM in response to tuong66

I'm going to guess that they have the same treatment unless you are using a dac and rca cables, sorry.


I'm super disappointed in this, since for deezer / tidal my AVRs app will don't the lossless streaming, but I don't think any third party app supports apple music the same way.


This is very unlike apple, to have this move without first making sure things work seamlessly

Jun 14, 2021 1:33 PM in response to errandum

God I'm confused. Old system (lounge): Airport Express II as DAC into Arcam (Airplay 2). Kitchen system: B&W Zeppelin wireless (Airplay 1). New system (studio): LG TV/ Apple 4K TV mk1 (OS 14.7)/ Stereo paired HomePod Originals (OS 14.6). Apple Music / Amazon HD on trial / ageing Spotify account, soon to be axed. Could anyone tell me what I'm listening to?

Jun 14, 2021 2:18 PM in response to Marco Klobas

I am very confused as well.

I have like 4300+ CD albums of classical music, ripped to lossless ALAC and imported into Apple Music on a headless Mac mini.


I have many airplay speakers at home : old airplay 1 speakers, including my Yamaha AVR, it also airplay 2 speakers like the Homepods and Sonos One.


So when I read that in forums (such as the Naim forum) that airplay 2 is streaming AAC and not lossless, it really worries me.

The reason why i chose to use mac at the first place years ago was it’s ability to play lossless over wifi (airplay).


Now I’m not sure what exactly gets streamed anymore.


And what I read in different forums is really contradictory.

For example, I read that Homepods doesn’t support lossless yet , but when streaming hi-res from Mac apple music to my homepods, the hires lossless logo is displayed and when airplaying the same hi-res files to old airplay 1 speakers the hi-res logo is not shown.

So all these apple music’s indications are just not trustworthy.


So confusing …







Jun 16, 2021 12:28 AM in response to Marco Klobas

Marco, are you sure about this? I was always under the impression that AirPlay coverts all streams to ALAC regardless of their original content. That is, even a lossy file such as an AAC file is converted to ALAC when transmitted then converted back to AAC again in the source device. Can you point me to the sources stating that Apple Music lossless is only being transmitted in AAC? AAC streams are used for Bluetooth by Apple, however.

Will lossless audio work via Airplay 2 and my receiver?

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