Will lossless audio work via Airplay 2 and my receiver?

Hi spacecadetG5,

I can provide a link to Naim's forum where Steve Harris, Software Director Naim Audio, describes the AAC AirPlay stream:

https://community.naimaudio.com/t/apple-music-hifi-tier-incoming/16445/437

Another evidence is here:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/apple-music-high-res/159869/646

Just to add that if I hadn't read the forums about this issue, I'd have not noticed this whole AirPlay issue.

The only odd aspect about AirPlay I personally noticed is the lossless logo change between AirPlay chosen inside Music app vs system-wide (volume menu bar) on Mac.

Thanks for that. Very disappointing.

This basically makes Apple Music Lossless essentially useless for the vast majority of people.

Even my KEF LSX and KEF LS50 (connected via an Airport Express) therefore won't be able to enjoy an ALAC stream.

What is the point? I also have a Blusound Node 2i connected to a nice system that also won't be able to enjoy lossless!

The Roon's forum link I posted contains various interesting posts about this topic – especially the recent posts (you don't have to read the whole thread).

AFAIK, currently a definitive explanation isn't available. AirPlay specs are mainly unknown. Only those who can somehow debug or dig inside an AirPlay receiver can provide some evidence.

I use Apple Music in lossless with my iPad attached to an USB DAC. This way I can enjoy the lossless music without complains.

Lossless AirPlay with Apple Music (within its 44.1 kHz limit) is definitely something I'm looking forward.

Speaking of Airport Express: there's evidence that at least on Mac choosing AirPlay system-wide rather than within Music app gives ALAC.

Does your Bluesound device give some informations when using AirPlay (AAC or ALAC)?

BTW, congratulations for your KEFs.

Thanks again. The Node2i will give me information about a Tidal stream since it can play Tidal natively but not about an AirPlay stream as far as I can tell. I really do hope that Apple ensure that AirPlay will be able to take advantage of at least an ALAC 16/44.1 file as otherwise very few people will be able to take advantage of the lossless audio without an external DAC. I note that iOS devices only state that you need an external DAC when you choose the high def audio so seems this should be the case.

The latest evidences show that Music app handles AirPlay 1 and 2 differently with Apple Music.

As I assumed in my "cheat sheet", AirPlay 1 provides ALAC, AirPlay 2 AAC. The reason is still debated.

Basically "older" protocol and devices using it are getting lossless CD quality, newer not. We'll see, when Apple will update the HomePod family (which are AirPlay 2) to support lossless, whether AirPlay 2 handling in general will change as well or not.

I just checked the lossless logo thing out. MacBook Pro 11.4, using system volume and in-app volume, to Homepods 14.6 and also B&W Zeppelin, by way of Express ii as DAC.

I get the lossless logo on all counts….?

The AirPlay via AirPort Express (AirPlay 1) to your B&W Zeppelin is ALAC.

As mentioned before, I've shown that my HomePod via AirPlay 2 gets the lossless logo in Music app, as you experienced.

Apple announced that HomePod doesn't support lossless yet. It'll come later through an update. Surely Apple meant when the music is started directly on it.

I'm not sure, whether the HomePod is already capable of lossless when used via AirPlay 2 or not.

Nobody knows what happens inside the HomePod. It's impossible to verify. Given the current evidences around AirPlay 2 with lossless Apple Music, I'm prone to believe it gets AAC. I could be wrong, though.

Given the current inconsistent AirPlay handling by Apple Music in lossless mode, I can't rely solely on the presence of the lossless icon.

That said, in my opinion, considering the HomePod it's a smart speaker (mono, by the way), the sonic difference between AAC and ALAC is little.

AirPlay, in general, is curiously not mentioned on Apple support page about lossless.

Probably a new post here but here are my thoughts. I subbed to Tidal some years ago. That was streamed via Express ii, to Arcam FMJ, pre and power amps, biwired and bi-amped into 3 way Mission 782 floor standers. Probably not reference, but not too terrible.

Compared to Spotify, Tidal had what I can only describe as ‘sparkle’. My opinion at the time was that Spotify’s 320kbps sounded dull, flat, two dimensional, call it what you like. Tidal provided more zip by a fair margin. Decided I couldn’t afford it after 6 months and went back to Spotify.

Fast forward April this year bought 2 x Homepods as discontinuation was announced, initially to improve TV audio via Apple TV. My opinion is these are truly ‘smart’ speakers. Not much use for the weather forecast in Acapulco, but for sheer musical entertainment, they’re knockout. They’re testament to Apple research and development (and sometimes rather wonky marketing). I’m upset when I hear people refer to them as ‘low end’ - they’re anything but, a wonderful piece of technical innovation and engineering.

I can stream to the Homepods, the 782s and the Zepplelin via AP 2 and compare and contrast. That’s another story.

But my point is that whether or not I’m listening to lossless or AAC, the quality of both Amazon HD and Apple Music is outstanding at half the price of Tidal. My opinion is Apple Music is possibly a more refined sound to Amazon, which has a slightly ‘rough edge’ in comparison. Source is important, but other factors are important too. And the biggest factor by far is whether the music sounds great to you and you enjoy what you’re hearing.

Thanks for your input.

Good to see that you're enjoying Apple Music.

I definitely don't consider your hi-fi system with your Mission speakers sub par. On the contrary.

My definition of HomePod as smart speaker didn't want to sound reductive. It's a well engineered device. Not only as a speaker. Its array of microphones are remarkably good to catch voice commands (even in my case – I have a terrible thin voice).

In my small room its bass sounds a little bit boomy. A future update (iOS15) is expected to introduce an option to lower the bass, which will solve this minor issue for those who find it too boomy.

I just consider regular Hi-Fi systems on another level. You own two HomePods which, I supposed, give you even a more enjoyable experience.

I have a more casual use fo my HomePod (e.g. listening while doing workout at home). ALAC or AAC makes little difference to me.

I agree that what really counts is how much you enjoy the music, regardless the format or speakers system.

The same goes for my AirPods Pro: they are good. I don't have activated lossless on te go, though. Makes little sense to me to listen lossless music outside via AirPods Pro. Even if I have an unlimited data plan. AAC is enough in this case.

At home is another story. I like using lossless via an USB DAC and my Hi-Fi rig.

Hi,

I have an AVR with a hi-ress audio built-in DAC and airplay capability. I also have an iPhone, an iPad, a Macbook air m1 and an Apple TV HD. As I understand there Is no way to stream Apple Music lossless through my receiver even though it is capable of playback ALAC files. Not even 44/16??? I don't understand... what makes it so difficult??

It would be useful if Apple at least only showed the Lossless logo when lossless was actually in use over Airplay. I think they need some other way to make this more clear so that we know when lossless is in effect and when it isn't. The lossless logo seems to be inconsistent as Marco has shown.

A downloaded file can be lossless but it might not stream in ALAC over Airplay 2 but it does over Airplay 1? Plus when this is happening it isn't clear that the lossless logo gives any useful information about the quality of Airplay streaming. Come on Apple.

I agree that the lossless logo should be implemented more consistently.

Another issue I noticed (not related to AirPlay). All my own music I uploaded/matched before the introduction of lossless is streamed AAC. Even after deleting and uploading/matching again the song/album is kept in AAC.

It seems that only the really new added music (never uploaded by the user before) is provided in ALAC.

Hope Apple will update to ALAC previously matched music, eventually.

On my Mac, streaming from Apple Music to my Blusound Node2i, the lossless logo is showing despite only selecting Airplay within the music app rather than system wide; however, from the above it would appear that this does not mean the file is actually playing in lossless.

The 2i supports Airplay2.

AirPlay 1 & 2 are capable of ALAC streaming, as you say, but that doesn't mean Apple Music takes advantage of it. In fact, Apple seems to bend over backwards to avoid an unbroken lossless chain from their servers to an AirPlay receiver.

AirPlay 2 also supports AAC. When playing a lossless track from Apple Music, the app gets the lossless data from Apple's servers and compresses it to 256kbps AAC before sending to the AirPlay 2 receiver (tested with AirPort Express v2, also acknowledged by at least one Apple AirPlay licensee).

The original AirPlay (aka AirTunes) only supports ALAC. If you have Apple Music set to play lossless versions of tracks it will, until you change the output to an AirPlay v1 receiver (tested with an original AirPort Express) the lossless icon goes away and Apple Music reports the track is AAC.

This behavior only occurs when playing stuff from Apple Music. If you have ALAC files you've made from CDs yourself it sends ALAC along to the AirPlay receiver (as it always has.)

I've documented the evidence I've gathered, including my own experiments.

It could change in the future, and I hope it does, but its so weird it seems like it must be deliberate. The only explanation I can come up with is that they are trying to keep people from getting a hold of the original unencrypted lossless audio data.