when i layer the high hats, the sound is a bit off, almost like the high hats are interfering with something and causing some of the high-hats to be muffled

sometimes when I go to make a new track, often house/techno, the high hats sound weird. like some of the high hats are muffled and not sounding consistent. does anyone know of this issue? or if I can reset my Logic Pro to resolve this, as its been happening ever since I got it and usually I just tend to ignore it

Posted on Aug 20, 2021 3:25 PM

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10 replies

Aug 22, 2021 2:36 AM in response to carters99

Don't worry about being new to this. I've been doing it 34 years and learn new things every day. The important thing is that you HEARD it. You may not know (yet) what it is or what it's called or how to fix it but your ears told you that something was wrong. That, my friend, is the most important thing. yoyoBen is correct about learning about phase and his questions relevent but it's quite scary when something is horribly out of phase and the person doing the work doesn't hear it!!


So, yoyoBens questions, look at those, think about them and answer them.


As an experiment, and to help you get your head around phase issues, make 2 (or more, depending on how many different hi hat tracks you have) and only have those elements on those tracks so that you can solo them and really hear where the issue is. On one of the tracks, put a gain plugin and flip the phase (you'll see the buttons for that in the gain plugin).

What you'll find with that is the ones that were phasing may now be fixed and the ones that were ok will now start phasing.


See if the hats on the different tracks are in exactly the same position. Sometimes though, the actual sounds have different lengths, attacks, releases etc and this can also cause an issue.


Bounce the hat tracks to audio (but keep your midi as this is just an experiment) and see how far out the waveforms are on your hat tracks. Try manually alligning them to improve things although this could also make it worse, that's the nature of audio.


Go to youtube and lookup examples of out of phase audio. Keep it simple at first.


yoyoBens most important question 'why?'. As you are producing the the track the answer can be as simple as 'I want to" which is fine. But as you're also the engineer you now have to make it work.


You'll get there. Keep going. Do lots of research. Do lots of experiments.

Aug 25, 2021 1:03 PM in response to octopi

I appreciate your in depth response to my issue and have spent a couple sessions playing around with hi hats. Your advice has helped me massively, the latest track I'm working on has a perfect sounding beat and the hi hats work well together. I may need to spend some time really researching the phase/phase cancellation but for now I'm happy just playing around and finding the solution myself.


And wow, making music for 34 years is crazy! I'm only 22 and feel like I'll be doing it in my spare time for the rest of my life. I think it's almost therapeutic for me and as you have proven by doing it that long, it never gets boring.


Can I ask after 34 years of making music, do you feel the same love for it as you did when you started? And also, do you have any released tracks or do you do it for the love of it?

Aug 25, 2021 1:13 PM in response to F-L-E-X-I-S

Yeah, I will definitely be prioritising learning phase and I like your point about the relationship between the open hat, closed hat and a kick being so important. The little things seem to create the whole effect of the song, and if the flow isn't there with the beat, the whole song will be ruined.


Ive been sticking with 120BPM as I don't think I can afford to be switching the tempo at the moment. I aim to make house/deep house vibes but do also love techno. Feel like I will spend time on techno once I have mastered the art of the house music.

Aug 23, 2021 1:41 AM in response to Pancenter

Layering sounds is a perfectly valid production technique…. but it does require some care. As always, less is more (2, maybe 3 sounds at most). Layering 15 hi-hats to create a “super-hat” will have diminishing returns.


As other have pointed out what you’re likely hearing is phase cancellation, caused by very similar sounds with overlapping frequencies, (& also microscopic timing differences). You need to choose your sounds carefully eg. a short open hat with a sharp attack overlaying an open hat with a long release. Positioning the two sounds by offsetting one or the other is vital, as well as adjusting their envelopes (attack & release). Other tricks include de-tuning one or other of the hats, & eq-ing each one differently. If you solo the hats, & listen on headphones this will help you hear what’s going on better. Once you’re happy with the result it’s a good idea to commit by bouncing, & treating it like a single sample, & then create a loop.


Usually an open hat in a house or techno track is mono, as you want it cutting through dead centre on a sound system, so it’s a good idea to bounce your hats in mono, (& use a little reverb to create a pseudo stereo image - again less is more). Keeping the hat mono will also avoid phase issues.


Programming hi hats that swing & groove takes skill & practice. The interaction between an open hat, closed hat & a 4x4 kick (bass drum) is often overlooked, so it’s a good idea to solo your rhythm track, & get that nailed before adding too many other elements. Tempo is another important factor, & often the tempo you started with isn’t the best tempo for the track, so try experimenting with a slower tempo. A lot of techno records are actually a lot slower than you might think… so listen to as many examples as you can.


Good luck!

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when i layer the high hats, the sound is a bit off, almost like the high hats are interfering with something and causing some of the high-hats to be muffled

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