PWM on MBP 14 inch - I'd like a definite answer from Apple whether this is used

This might be late, but the answer to your question is yes! Unfortunately, All Apple displays after 2018 use PWM! Even the newly announced "Studio" Display does! The best thing you could do is purchase a Mac mini, or the base model Mac studio if you need more power and a non-Apple flicker-free monitor that uses CD instead of PWM for dimming. Dell, BenQ, Asus and Viewsonic all make flicker-free monitors. If you need a laptop, I am afraid you'll have to ditch Mac OS! Very unfortunate for a company like Apple to use PWM to save a few bucks! Good luck.

Whet meaning of PWM are you referring to here? These are the common ones for Wikipedia disambiguation:

PWM may refer to:

Science and technology[edit]

• Position weight matrix, a representation in motifs in biological sequences
• Pulse-width modulation, a technique for controlling the average power delivered by an electrical signal
• PWM (window manager), a Unix-based X window manager

Other uses[edit]

• Panzerwurfmine, a type of German anti-tank hand grenade
• Portland International Jetport, an airport in the U.S.
• Professional Wealth Management, a financial magazine
• Permanent Way Machine, the British Rail Class 97/6 locomotives
• Polskie Wydawnictwo Muzyczne, the Polish Music Publishing House

¿what are you taking about?

Return the computer and see a doctor.

I know if a product I owned caused me pain and discomfort I would stop using it, regardless of the technology used. We are all users here. Apple does not participate here. If you are not happy with your computer or you think it is causing you "headaches" etc., just return it and get a brand that works with your health condition. See a doctor first.

Van_Alexandra wrote:

I will give it one last shot and see if I can get a definite answer on this forum. I don't want opinions and hearsay though, but a definite facts-based answer. If anyone could help, I'd be most grateful.

Here is the "definite answer".

If it hurts when I poke a stick in my eye, I stop poking the stick in my eye.

If a computer causes me "headaches", I stop using the computer.

These are user-to-user help communities. We can not discuss Apple policies, manufacturing process, specifications, or other proprietary information. Apple hosts this site and on occasion a moderator will jump in to moderate the discussion. We can not provide medical advice. If a user is exhibiting a medical condition they believe is caused by a device, they must seek medical advice from a medical professional.

Van_Alexandra wrote:

I get that, but the majority of non-Apple laptops out there use PWM, so it's not exactly that easy. Up to this point Apple was a safe choice. I just wanted to verify whether it could have been the laptop or soemthing else that casued the issue. Correlation doesn't mean causation.

Also, it's not just my health issue, everyone's eyes are affected equally, but not everyone gets the same symptoms. I understand you were trying to be helpful but I'm looking for an answer to a specific quastion, not alternative solutions. If that's what I was after I wouldn't have posted here but I'd have gone to the nearest computer shop.

You came here, or would have gone to a computer shop, looking for an answer. If I was having eye strain and headaches I would have gone to an eye specialist for the answer. If I was looking for an answer to a health related (eye strain/headaches) question these forums would be the last place I would look for the answer.

Sorry you are not getting the answer you are looking for.

Millions of people use Mac computers without getting eye strain or headaches. So everyone is not affected the same.

Van_Alexandra wrote:

This contradicts what I was told this morning on the phone with Apple support. They told me to post here as Apple developers reply to questions posted on this forum. I stated that in my opening message. I'm not asking for medical advice, neither am I asking for advice on what to do with the medical condition. I'm looking for an answer to a specific question that no one at Apple seems to be able to resolve.

That person was mis-informed. Apple does not participate here. There are developer forums, but, according to the terms of use, we are not allowed to discuss Apple policies or speculate.

So, the point is: you will not get a definitive answer here. And, since Apple will no doubt consider the manufacturing process as proprietary, you will most likely not get your answer there either. But, go ahead and try. FWIW, your type of problem should not be addressed by phone or chat with support personnel - write a letter to their corporate address and address it to their head of development.

Van_Alexandra wrote:

I'm looking for an answer to a specific question. You're not providing it. You're answering a question that wasn't even asked. And yet somehow you think you are making a point. Weird attitude.

Sorry. You came here "ranting". We tried as best we could as users to provide advice.

Van_Alexandra wrote:

Pulse Width Modulation. None of the other ones you listed have anything to do with a Macbook display brightness, so if it was an attempt at covert sarcasm it was rather unsuccessful.

It was not an attempt at anything. I genuinely did not understand what you were talking about. You are tossing off extremely obscure TLAs and insulting anyone who does not know what YOU meant to say.

I expect of the over 750,000 people worldwide who work for Apple, only a dozen of their product development engineers could answer that question with authority. By the way, those guys are prohibited from talking directly to Users.

I think the only way to get a definitive answer would be to WRITE (on paper, through the US mail) to Apple corporate headquarters and ask them for the exact additional technical information you seek.

--------

By far the best advice to date was provided by BobTheFisherman:

If the unit hurts you -- regardless of the answer to your queries -- you should stop using it.

If within the 14-day window, return it for a full-value refund.

Van_Alexandra wrote:

Hey there,

I've been trying to get a definite answer from Apple regarding the presence of PWM in their MacBook Pro 14 inch 2021. So far it's been impossible to get an answer of any sort. I've had the device for just over a week and it does give me headaches and eye strain. And I've been a Mac user for 10 years now without any issues.

I have asked at 2 different Apple stores and they said they weren't able to confirm wither PWM was present in the new 14 inch Macs. Heck, they didn;t even know what that was! I was told to contact Apple support over the phone. Which I did. The first advisor told me to go to the Apple store because the phone support service was for software only. I explained to him that I had already been to the Apple store and was directed to them. He passed me on to another department where they said they had no idea if PWN was used. I replied that someone at Apple MUST know that and I endevoured to locate that person. I was passed on to yet another person who also had no idea whether PWM was used - and who could answer that question. They told me to ask on the forum becasue Apple developers reply here. So here I am.

The ridiculous part is that no one I spoke with even knew what PWM was and I had to explain it to each of the people I spoke with. It's beyind shocking that people hired for their technical skills had no idea what this very basic technology was. One of the advisers Googled whether Apple used PWM and said that in his OPINION (when I was after hard facts) there was no PWM in the new Macs. Seriously, I can actually do an online search myself, so that was disappointing - to say the least. Not to mention that I found plenty of reviews and articles where the use of PWM was confirmed or suspected. It's weird that the advisor didn't find any.

I seriously don't understand why it's been THIS hard ot get a definite answer from Apple. I'm not asking for some sort of an industry secret but for a technology behind the functioning of the display.

Unlike my old 2013 MBP the new 14 inch MBP does give me headaches after an hour or so. One of the reasons I bought a Mac 9 years ago was no PWM, back then it was easy to verify that Apple didn't use it. Now it's one heck of an investigation - with a dead end it seems.

I'm still within the 14 day return window and unless I can get a definite answer I will return the Mac. And NOT becuase of the PWM itself, but because it's been impossible to get Apple to answer this question. I am now VERY suspicious about Apple's busienss practices if they refuse to be transparent about the build of their devices. What other dodgy stuff are they doing that users don't know about?

Something really dodgy seems to be going on at Apple, this company is not what it used to be. It reminds me of the poor build of their 2019-2020 Macbooks that cracked with normal use. Their advisors were adamant that those cases were user damage and now Apple is facing a lawsuit for devices breaking due to poor display build and people being unfairly charged for repairs. Heck, it was even discussed on Apple's own forums.

I will give it one last shot and see if I can get a definite answer on this forum. I don't want opinions and hearsay though, but a definite facts-based answer. If anyone could help, I'd be most grateful.

Rant over ;)

Take care.

PWM ?

Please define your terms...