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User profile for user: Timiambeing
Timiambeing Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

RAW previews in Apple Photos on Mac Big Sur totally inaccurate

I can't believe no one has noticed this before, it maybe because there's something strange about my setup, so I'll explain the steps below and if any else sees this please let me know I'm not going nuts! 😊


  1. Import a RAW file (one with micro details like tree leaves is ideal, and make sure you have not imported this file before otherwise Photos will have already created a preview for it).
  2. In Browser mode press spacebar to get a full sized screen preview of your file (note how sharp it is)
  3. Now click Edit and take same photo into the Edit module note how this is a far more accurate view and nowhere near as sharp as the preview)
  4. Now exit Edit back to full screen view and notice the file is still shown at Edit module sharpness (I.e. accurate and not over sharpened).
  5. Now press spacebar to go back to thumbnail mode, then spacebar again to go back to full screen preview, notice how this is now super sharpened, perfect in fact, why would I ever need to edit it!


I realise all RAW images in all RAW processors require a preview image, which at thumbnail view is usually the imbedded JPEG, at full screen view this will be an approximation of how this file would look if converted with no extra sharpening or editing at all (in Lightroom for example this would usually appear quite flat and low in contrast). Of course the editor ALWAYS applies some basic adjustments to the preview otherwise you wouldn't be able to see anything, but usually these will need some extra work.


It seems to me that Photos (and Preview, and even third party extensions that rely on Apple JPEG display algorithm I have found) apply preview processing that is drastically over sharpened, so the images on your Mac look great. The problem is, this isn't a true representation at all and if you go into Edit mode you will see what that actual RAW would look like with no extra sharpening applied.


The entire point of this is if a photo editor shows you an unrealistic preview at full screen of a RAW image, then you would never bother to edit it. Which means that when an exported JPEG of that image is displayed on more accurate rendering engines on other platforms and in other software it will surely appear soft?


Well, let's see...


First screenshot is from Photos full screen browser view... crispy, doesn't need editing at all!



Second screenshot is from Photos full screen Edit view... oh it seems it does need some sharpening after all!



So if I export an image that in Apple Photos and Preview looks crispy and sharp (see first screenshot of Photo full screen view) as a JPEG to a third party app that doesn't use Apple algorithms, how would it display?


See third screenshot below of image in Phiewer and low and behold the image is not crispy and sharp, in fact it looks remarkably like Photos Edit view - in other words unedited and unsharpened and accurate - but not how I want my final image to be seen obviously. If Photos had rendered an accurate pre-edit view I would have know this mage needed a little work and the results would display very differently.



I rest my case - the only view you can trust in Photos is the full screen and 100% view seen in the Edit module. All other renders (including those in Preview) are magically messed with by the Apple rendering algorithm.


PS. You might need to see photos full size to properly tell the difference, also I am using an LX100 .RW2 RAW file, this may be a specific case, but I have found Canon RAW's have a similar effect so...



MacBook Air 13″, macOS 11.6

Posted on Mar 20, 2022 4:21 AM

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User profile for user: Timiambeing
Timiambeing Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Posted on Mar 20, 2022 12:50 PM

Ya know, if people read the question instead of picking a **** sentence to illustrate their vast knowledge I might get some more useful insights here!!!!


Of course I know that, everyone knows that.


What I am saying is very simple, if your RAW editor cannot display a reasonably accurate full screen representation of your RAW file before you have started to edit (and afterwards of course) then it is useless. How can I flip through my images in order to decide which need adjustment, if Apple Photos full screen browse view makes them all look **** amazing!


RAW photo editors use the built-in JPEG preview from the camera as a starting point, every RAW image has one of these even if you don't shoot JPEG+RAW for this very reason and to make it a quick job to display thumbnails. The software then applies adjustments to the RAW data in order to get to at least an approximation of what your (so far manually unedited) file looks like. You don't see those adjustments and few RAW file editors show you their effect in the tool panel, an exception is Raw Power which offers a Boost control so you can at last dial them down a bit if you think you can do a better job.


What Photos is doing (actually its the Apple image display algorithm, the same as can be seen at work in Preview) is making your JPEG preview image look as good as possible so it displays nicely. Which is fine if you are scrolling through family photos, but definitely not what you want in a photo editor. Which is presumably why Adobe products (and a few others) don't use the Apple display algorithm, even on the Mac. They use proprietary algorithms of their own which offer a real time approximation of the RAW image.


Now to add further detail, Apple didn't always do this, in Photos or anywhere else. It began I think when the ProRaw format arrived and iPhone users have complained a lot about it on their devices so it seems. Maybe Apple wanted their new format to look amazing and maybe Apple Photos now sees any RAW format as a good candidate for this hyper realism treatment - who knows, but its OK, there isn't an answer, its a feature it seems.


(thanks incidentally to the person who posted those couple of useful questions earlier, they were at least useful if not relevant in this case)


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User profile for user: Timiambeing
Timiambeing Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Mar 20, 2022 12:50 PM in response to Yer_Man

Ya know, if people read the question instead of picking a **** sentence to illustrate their vast knowledge I might get some more useful insights here!!!!


Of course I know that, everyone knows that.


What I am saying is very simple, if your RAW editor cannot display a reasonably accurate full screen representation of your RAW file before you have started to edit (and afterwards of course) then it is useless. How can I flip through my images in order to decide which need adjustment, if Apple Photos full screen browse view makes them all look **** amazing!


RAW photo editors use the built-in JPEG preview from the camera as a starting point, every RAW image has one of these even if you don't shoot JPEG+RAW for this very reason and to make it a quick job to display thumbnails. The software then applies adjustments to the RAW data in order to get to at least an approximation of what your (so far manually unedited) file looks like. You don't see those adjustments and few RAW file editors show you their effect in the tool panel, an exception is Raw Power which offers a Boost control so you can at last dial them down a bit if you think you can do a better job.


What Photos is doing (actually its the Apple image display algorithm, the same as can be seen at work in Preview) is making your JPEG preview image look as good as possible so it displays nicely. Which is fine if you are scrolling through family photos, but definitely not what you want in a photo editor. Which is presumably why Adobe products (and a few others) don't use the Apple display algorithm, even on the Mac. They use proprietary algorithms of their own which offer a real time approximation of the RAW image.


Now to add further detail, Apple didn't always do this, in Photos or anywhere else. It began I think when the ProRaw format arrived and iPhone users have complained a lot about it on their devices so it seems. Maybe Apple wanted their new format to look amazing and maybe Apple Photos now sees any RAW format as a good candidate for this hyper realism treatment - who knows, but its OK, there isn't an answer, its a feature it seems.


(thanks incidentally to the person who posted those couple of useful questions earlier, they were at least useful if not relevant in this case)


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User profile for user: TonyCollinet
TonyCollinet
User level: Level 7
23,954 points

Mar 21, 2022 3:00 AM in response to Timiambeing

Hi


Your LX100 is supported by Big Sur:

Digital camera RAW formats supported by iOS 14, iPadOS 14 and macOS Big Sur – Apple Support (UK)


However I share your suspicion that the power of your Mac might be an issue. If you haven't already I'd try opening the image for editing and waiting to see if it sharpens - even waiting for up to 10 minutes. If it does in that time you can know that it is a performance problem. If it doesn't then something else is amiss.


In that case I'd suggest restarting in safe mode.

Start up your Mac in safe mode – Apple Support (UK)


Safe mode will clear temporary files and caches, and sometimes fixes odd glitches such as this.



(It will take longer to start in safe mode than a normal start)



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User profile for user: TonyCollinet
TonyCollinet
User level: Level 7
23,954 points

Mar 20, 2022 6:55 AM in response to Timiambeing

Hi


It can take a few seconds for the image to be processed and shown at full resolution - this can be quite long if your mac is slower, you have particularly large raw files, or you are storing your library on an external drive.


If you wait a while after opening for edit, does it sharpen up?


Where is your library stored? How large are your raw files.

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User profile for user: Timiambeing
Timiambeing Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Mar 20, 2022 9:15 AM in response to TonyCollinet

Hi - thanks for reply but this isn’t the issue. I’ve just taken my raw file into the local Apple store and tried it on the latest MacBook Air and then the New Studio setup up. On the Air it never changes from the over sharpened preview, whereas on the Studio large monitor it quickly has a rethink and reduces the quality (obviously with reference to the raw file as opposed to the built in JPEG) to a more accurate representation.


So it seems to be the Apple screen renderer doing its thing, which incidentally can be checked by opening a converted RAW file with no adjustments in Chrome - that gives a truthful rendering.


Shame really, looks like it’s back to the Adobe universe. Lightroom offers a far more believable rendering at all screen sizes, much more in line with 100% in the Develop module.

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User profile for user: Timiambeing
Timiambeing Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Mar 20, 2022 5:25 PM in response to TonyCollinet

That’s very useful to know Tony, thanks. I am thinking this situation is made worse by two things, upgrading to Big Sur on my early 2014 MacBook Air with 4Gb RAM and little graphics acceleration compared with the latest models, plus the Panasonic LX100 RAW files don’t seem to be liked by most software I am trialing at the moment. Maybe the Apple algorithm is aware of graphics capabilities and doesn’t try to apply adjustments if there isn’t the speed necessary, simply tweaking the image to look as good as it can?


I’ve just installed DxO Photolab and it’s not too sure what to do with them either. However, it doesn’t try to show a fit to screen preview until it has applied the various built in standard adjustments from RAW, which takes a few seconds but at least means there is no hyper sharpened false previews to content with. It’s actually not too slow on this machine which surprises me.


I only wanted to buy a new camera really, but it might be I have to run to a new Mac and DxO… 🥴


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RAW previews in Apple Photos on Mac Big Sur totally inaccurate

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