Any way to track stolen iPhone 4 without having previously installed an app

While it is good that you locked it, that does not prevent anyone from plugging it into iTunes and restoring it as a new device. That process is a common trouble shooting step for machines with corrupted iOS updates or other serious software/firmware problems, so it is a necessary function.

Locking the phone was a very smart move though. Ideally, while I know many people complain about the "inconvenience" of the passcode lock screen, really, to protect your information, you should be using a passcode lock, with a short timeout like 1-2 mintus, and the lock set to engage immediately. That is by far and away a more valuable security feature than any remote feature that requires a data connection as any such thing is easily defeated while the passcode is the complete opposite.

Any remote feature is never going to be much of a security feature - you can dump a smart phone into a heavy guage metal foil pouch and immediately cut off it's radio reception without touching any of the controls. No data connection, no remote access possible.

I to didnt have an app installed on my phone but when my phone was on i went on google latitude on my computer and since my gmail was connected to it from my phone i was able to get a location of where the phone was at the time. Now my phone is off and no way of finding it. So i went to the market where i thought it got stolen and sure enough the guy behind me in line takes it and walks out. So I filed a police report and hopefully they persue the matter and get this person.

Just wanted to follow up on my post from three days ago. Whoever stole my daughters iPhone turned it back on yesterday. I was continuing to monitor it, we called the police and the phone was located. Unfortunately, the thieves broke the screen, stole the phone cover, and then tossed it out the window. But at least we got it back thanks to a caring police department and Find My iPhone app. A lot of lessons learned.

Our phone was lost/stolen too...in Mexico. We have suspended service. Should we be worried about the new owner having access to our hotmail messages that is, once the phone is a brick is it unable to show old email that was read on it? Tx!

if only...!!! :-) ...it would be great if it could spit on the thief too, before it explodes...it seems that too often the "privacy laws" protect only the thieves' privacy--and make it all too easy for them to get away with stealing and keeping iphones that honest people pay hard-earned money for!

wish our local law enforcement was like that! :-)

@EBSkater, yes but it only works if the stolen phone is:

--turned on

--has access to an internet connection

--icloud and find my iphone installed

ALL THREE conditiions have to be met (and even then, there's no guarantee that it can be located). Unfortunately, although there are many smart people at Apple, somehow they haven't put their resources toward simple solutions to prevent theft of these very expensive and highly coveted devices. Thus, without effective tracking and/or deterrents (such as blocking IMEIs as is done in most of the rest of the industrialized world, including the EU and Australia), it's no wonder that theft of these items in the US is so high.

arlington007 wrote:

Unfortunately, although there are many smart people at Apple, somehow they haven't put their resources toward simple solutions to prevent theft of these very expensive and highly coveted devices. Thus, without effective tracking and/or deterrents (such as blocking IMEIs as is done in most of the rest of the industrialized world, including the EU and Australia), it's no wonder that theft of these items in the US is so high.

Not Apple's problem.

In other countries the carrier manages IMEI blocking. NO US carrier blocks IMEI numbers.

As for a simple solution, it's called keeping your personal possessions in your possession. Yes, there are circumstances where this doesn't apply... but most devices are LOST, not stolen due to a careless user leaving it sitting out.

@diesel,

Perhaps I wasn't very clear. I wasn't saying the IMEI issue was Apple's problem; my point was that if Apple is able to design a passcode lock (to be used at the owner's option) to prevent access to the phone and personal information by unauthorized users (eg. thieves), then they also could have provided the option to the owner of requiring a passcode to power the phone off too. This simple anti-theft modification would solve the problem (cited by a few recent posters) of not being able to locate their iphones quickly (because the thieves simply turned off the phone, and thus made it not traceable). This is just one suggestion (using a technology--the passocde--they obviously already have, and which likely wouldn't cost much more), and I'm sure there are many more that could have been built into the devices.

While I don't have the stats to prove whether most iphones are lost or stolen, i'ts besides the point. Regardless, if someone has possession of your device without your consent, and hasn't turned it in within a reasonable time period (max 24 hours) to the authorities, (who have the capability to return it to the rightful owners), it can be reasonably concluded that they intend to keep it and either use it as theirs or sell it. According to my definition (and that of many others I know), this is theft.

The point about the carriers who refuse to flag IMEIs of stolen phones is that by so doing, they are enabling theft by not discouraging it. If all carriers refused service to devices known to be stolen (by tracking and blacklisting the IMEIs), this would render the devices much less attractive for those who "find" them, to keep them. There are reliable stats to show that iphone thefts in the EU and Australia are drmatically lower than in the US. I also have personal anecdotes of friends who lost their iphones in countries where carriers (including all the major ones that operate in the US market) DO block IMEIs and who were able to find them quickly--often through the help of the carriers themselves. There's no reason this can't--or shouldn't also happen in the US.

As for dealing with the removal of SIMS by these same thieves--to remain untraceable--the iphone oculd be designed to make the SIM card removable ONLY with tools available exclusively to the carriers. This way, if it had to be removed for any reason, the iphone would first have to go thru the carriers, who would then have the opportunity to check it against the stolen IMEI list to determine its eligibility for removal.

No... you were no clear and the expectations are a bit ridiculous.

arlington007 wrote:

my point was that if Apple is able to design a passcode lock (to be used at the owner's option) to prevent access to the phone and personal information by unauthorized users (eg. thieves), then they also could have provided the option to the owner of requiring a passcode to power the phone off too. This simple anti-theft modification would solve the problem (cited by a few recent posters) of not being able to locate their iphones quickly (because the thieves simply turned off the phone, and thus made it not traceable).

This is great until the touch screen becomes unresponsive, the device simply locks up, or the user forgets their passcode. Great option... make the device instantly a brick because of a supposed security feature that adds no real world benefit.

arlington007 wrote:

The point about the carriers who refuse to flag IMEIs of stolen phones is that by so doing, they are enabling theft by not discouraging it. If all carriers refused service to devices known to be stolen (by tracking and blacklisting the IMEIs), this would render the devices much less attractive for those who "find" them, to keep them. There are reliable stats to show that iphone thefts in the EU and Australia are drmatically lower than in the US. I also have personal anecdotes of friends who lost their iphones in countries where carriers (including all the major ones that operate in the US market) DO block IMEIs and who were able to find them quickly--often through the help of the carriers themselves. There's no reason this can't--or shouldn't also happen in the US.

Again, not an issue for Apple... it's an issue for carriers and lawmakers in the US.

Stop putting responsibility on Apple that essentially makes them law enforcement. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on carriers and the government.

My understanding is that in countries where IMEI blocking takes place there is legal/law enforcement involvement that manages the process. Regardless, the blocking is only for that carrier... so the device could still be taken to another carrier (assuming it's unlocked) and used on a different carriers network.

arlington007 wrote:

As for dealing with the removal of SIMS by these same thieves--to remain untraceable--the iphone oculd be designed to make the SIM card removable ONLY with tools available exclusively to the carriers. This way, if it had to be removed for any reason, the iphone would first have to go thru the carriers, who would then have the opportunity to check it against the stolen IMEI list to determine its eligibility for removal.

Again, a ridiculous step that inhibits the user's ability to troubleshoot their device or switch SIMS and therefore switch carriers at their will.

Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?

Apple actually does more to assist users of lost/stolen devices than most manufacturers. Samsung, Motorolla, Nokia, RIM, Dell, Huwawai, and others do not provide built in functionality for tracking a lost/stolen device.

@diesel,

diesel vdub wrote:

No... you were no clear and the expectations are a bit ridiculous.

arlington007 wrote:

my point was that if Apple is able to design a passcode lock (to be used at the owner's option) to prevent access to the phone and personal information by unauthorized users (eg. thieves), then they also could have provided the option to the owner of requiring a passcode to power the phone off too. This simple anti-theft modification would solve the problem (cited by a few recent posters) of not being able to locate their iphones quickly (because the thieves simply turned off the phone, and thus made it not traceable).

This is great until the touch screen becomes unresponsive, the device simply locks up, or the user forgets their passcode. Great option... make the device instantly a brick because of a supposed security feature that adds no real world benefit.

arlington007 wrote:

The point about the carriers who refuse to flag IMEIs of stolen phones is that by so doing, they are enabling theft by not discouraging it. If all carriers refused service to devices known to be stolen (by tracking and blacklisting the IMEIs), this would render the devices much less attractive for those who "find" them, to keep them. There are reliable stats to show that iphone thefts in the EU and Australia are drmatically lower than in the US. I also have personal anecdotes of friends who lost their iphones in countries where carriers (including all the major ones that operate in the US market) DO block IMEIs and who were able to find them quickly--often through the help of the carriers themselves. There's no reason this can't--or shouldn't also happen in the US.

Again, not an issue for Apple... it's an issue for carriers and lawmakers in the US.

Stop putting responsibility on Apple that essentially makes them law enforcement. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on carriers and the government.

My understanding is that in countries where IMEI blocking takes place there is legal/law enforcement involvement that manages the process. Regardless, the blocking is only for that carrier... so the device could still be taken to another carrier (assuming it's unlocked) and used on a different carriers network.

arlington007 wrote:

As for dealing with the removal of SIMS by these same thieves--to remain untraceable--the iphone oculd be designed to make the SIM card removable ONLY with tools available exclusively to the carriers. This way, if it had to be removed for any reason, the iphone would first have to go thru the carriers, who would then have the opportunity to check it against the stolen IMEI list to determine its eligibility for removal.

Again, a ridiculous step that inhibits the user's ability to troubleshoot their device or switch SIMS and therefore switch carriers at their will.

Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?

Apple actually does more to assist users of lost/stolen devices than most manufacturers. Samsung, Motorolla, Nokia, RIM, Dell, Huwawai, and others do not provide built in functionality for tracking a lost/stolen device.

I guess I have to disagree with you on most points:

First, as I had stated before, I agree with you, the IMEI issue isn't Apple's responsibility, and I had stated this very clearly in my post. Not sure why you are insisting that I am stating that it is. Did you read my post? Further, while I appreciate your coming to Apple's defense, my statements weren't intended as an indictment of Apple, simply as suggestions for further improvement that could potentially provide solutions. Words like "ridiculous" don't add anything to the discussion. This is an open forum for exchanging ideas, and comments like this are simply not appropriate, and your tone is condescending at best.

Re the passcode lock: diesel vdub wrote:

This is great until the touch screen becomes unresponsive, the device simply locks up, or the user forgets their passcode. Great option... make the device instantly a brick because of a supposed security feature that adds no real world benefit.

So, if the touchscreen becomes unresponsive, or the device locks up, you can't use the device anyway whether there is a passcode lock on it or not. The fact is, the passcode lock is already provided as an OPTION on iphones in order to GET INTO the iphone--why should it not be an OPTION to TURN IT OFF? If you can remember the passcode to get into your phone (which you have to do every time you swipe), you can certainly remember it when you need to get out of it. Further, as metioned before, the passcode lock is an OPTION provided to those who would want to use it to prevent theft.

Re the carrier's responsibility: diesel vdub wrote:

diesel vdub wrote:

diesel vdub wrote:

No... you were no clear and the expectations are a bit ridiculous.

arlington007 wrote:

my point was that if Apple is able to design a passcode lock (to be used at the owner's option) to prevent access to the phone and personal information by unauthorized users (eg. thieves), then they also could have provided the option to the owner of requiring a passcode to power the phone off too. This simple anti-theft modification would solve the problem (cited by a few recent posters) of not being able to locate their iphones quickly (because the thieves simply turned off the phone, and thus made it not traceable).

This is great until the touch screen becomes unresponsive, the device simply locks up, or the user forgets their passcode. Great option... make the device instantly a brick because of a supposed security feature that adds no real world benefit.

arlington007 wrote:

The point about the carriers who refuse to flag IMEIs of stolen phones is that by so doing, they are enabling theft by not discouraging it. If all carriers refused service to devices known to be stolen (by tracking and blacklisting the IMEIs), this would render the devices much less attractive for those who "find" them, to keep them. There are reliable stats to show that iphone thefts in the EU and Australia are drmatically lower than in the US. I also have personal anecdotes of friends who lost their iphones in countries where carriers (including all the major ones that operate in the US market) DO block IMEIs and who were able to find them quickly--often through the help of the carriers themselves. There's no reason this can't--or shouldn't also happen in the US.

Again, not an issue for Apple... it's an issue for carriers and lawmakers in the US.

Stop putting responsibility on Apple that essentially makes them law enforcement. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on carriers and the government.

My understanding is that in countries where IMEI blocking takes place there is legal/law enforcement involvement that manages the process. Regardless, the blocking is only for that carrier... so the device could still be taken to another carrier (assuming it's unlocked) and used on a different carriers network.

arlington007 wrote:

As for dealing with the removal of SIMS by these same thieves--to remain untraceable--the iphone oculd be designed to make the SIM card removable ONLY with tools available exclusively to the carriers. This way, if it had to be removed for any reason, the iphone would first have to go thru the carriers, who would then have the opportunity to check it against the stolen IMEI list to determine its eligibility for removal.

Again, a ridiculous step that inhibits the user's ability to troubleshoot their device or switch SIMS and therefore switch carriers at their will.

Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?

Apple actually does more to assist users of lost/stolen devices than most manufacturers. Samsung, Motorolla, Nokia, RIM, Dell, Huwawai, and others do not provide built in functionality for tracking a lost/stolen device.

No... you were no clear and the expectations are a bit ridiculous.

arlington007 wrote:

my point was that if Apple is able to design a passcode lock (to be used at the owner's option) to prevent access to the phone and personal information by unauthorized users (eg. thieves), then they also could have provided the option to the owner of requiring a passcode to power the phone off too. This simple anti-theft modification would solve the problem (cited by a few recent posters) of not being able to locate their iphones quickly (because the thieves simply turned off the phone, and thus made it not traceable).

This is great until the touch screen becomes unresponsive, the device simply locks up, or the user forgets their passcode. Great option... make the device instantly a brick because of a supposed security feature that adds no real world benefit.

arlington007 wrote:

The point about the carriers who refuse to flag IMEIs of stolen phones is that by so doing, they are enabling theft by not discouraging it. If all carriers refused service to devices known to be stolen (by tracking and blacklisting the IMEIs), this would render the devices much less attractive for those who "find" them, to keep them. There are reliable stats to show that iphone thefts in the EU and Australia are drmatically lower than in the US. I also have personal anecdotes of friends who lost their iphones in countries where carriers (including all the major ones that operate in the US market) DO block IMEIs and who were able to find them quickly--often through the help of the carriers themselves. There's no reason this can't--or shouldn't also happen in the US.

Again, not an issue for Apple... it's an issue for carriers and lawmakers in the US.

Stop putting responsibility on Apple that essentially makes them law enforcement. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on carriers and the government.

My understanding is that in countries where IMEI blocking takes place there is legal/law enforcement involvement that manages the process. Regardless, the blocking is only for that carrier... so the device could still be taken to another carrier (assuming it's unlocked) and used on a different carriers network.

arlington007 wrote:

As for dealing with the removal of SIMS by these same thieves--to remain untraceable--the iphone oculd be designed to make the SIM card removable ONLY with tools available exclusively to the carriers. This way, if it had to be removed for any reason, the iphone would first have to go thru the carriers, who would then have the opportunity to check it against the stolen IMEI list to determine its eligibility for removal.

Again, a ridiculous step that inhibits the user's ability to troubleshoot their device or switch SIMS and therefore switch carriers at their will.

Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?

Apple actually does more to assist users of lost/stolen devices than most manufacturers. Samsung, Motorolla, Nokia, RIM, Dell, Huwawai, and others do not provide built in functionality for tracking a lost/stolen device.

Again, not an issue for Apple... it's an issue for carriers and lawmakers in the US.

Stop putting responsibility on Apple that essentially makes them law enforcement. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on carriers and the government.

My understanding is that in countries where IMEI blocking takes place there is legal/law enforcement involvement that manages the process. Regardless, the blocking is only for that carrier... so the device could still be taken to another carrier (assuming it's unlocked) and used on a different carriers network.

Agreed. Do you see a single mention of Apple in the two paragraphs above? No. It's all about the carriers (and yes, of course, law enforcement has to get involved too--that would have been expected). And yes, the government should put pressure on the carriers to do this too. No, you are not correct, the blocking isn't only for that carrier. The blocking is EU-wide, so you can't take that same phone and go to another carrier in the EU.

diesel vdub wrote:

Again, a ridiculous step that inhibits the user's ability to troubleshoot their device or switch SIMS and therefore switch carriers at their will.

Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?

As far as I know, almost every wireless phone user (including the overwhelming majority of iphone users) in America are under some sort of long-term contract to a telecommunications carrier, in exchange for getting that device for free or at a reduced cost. This is especially true for most iphone users as the cost of purchasing one without a contract is out of the reach of most consumers. Therefore, the option to "switch carriers at will" simply doesn't exist for most people. So the idea that you would be inhibiting the power of people to switch carriers because they would not be empowered to remove their own SIM cards simply doesn't make realistic sense here. Even if they did decide to switch carriers, the new carrier would have to provide the SIM card anyway, and at that time could appropropriately switch the SIM card out.

Again, I would invite you to look at stats of stolen phones (an iphones in particular) in the EU, Australia, S. Africa, etc, and compare those to the rate in the US. There is no comparison.

Your above statement: "Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?" adds nothing consructive to the discussion.

Folks, please forgive the tranwreck of a response above. I was trying to edit the text and in so doing, made some mistakes which produced the jumble above. Please ignore it. And if the administrator can, he/she should erase it. Here's what should have been posted:

@diesel vdub, I guess I have to disagree with you on most points:

First, as I had stated before, I agree with you, the IMEI issue isn't Apple's responsibility, and I had stated this very clearly in my post. Not sure why you are insisting that I am stating that it is. Did you read my post? Further, while I appreciate your coming to Apple's defense, my statements weren't intended as an indictment of Apple, simply as suggestions for further improvement that could potentially provide solutions. Words like "ridiculous" don't add anything to the discussion. This is an open forum for exchanging ideas, and comments like this are simply not appropriate, and your tone is condescending at best.

Re the passcode lock: diesel vdub wrote:

This is great until the touch screen becomes unresponsive, the device simply locks up, or the user forgets their passcode. Great option... make the device instantly a brick because of a supposed security feature that adds no real world benefit.

So, if the touchscreen becomes unresponsive, or the device locks up, you can't use the device anyway whether there is a passcode lock on it or not. The fact is, the passcode lock is already provided as an OPTION on iphones in order to GET INTO the iphone--why should it not be an OPTION to TURN IT OFF? If you can remember the passcode to get into your phone (which you have to do every time you swipe), you can certainly remember it when you need to get out of it. Further, as metioned before, the passcode lock is an OPTION provided to those who would want to use it to prevent theft.

Re the issue of the carriers: diesel vdub wrote:

Again, not an issue for Apple... it's an issue for carriers and lawmakers in the US.

Stop putting responsibility on Apple that essentially makes them law enforcement. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on carriers and the government.

My understanding is that in countries where IMEI blocking takes place there is legal/law enforcement involvement that manages the process. Regardless, the blocking is only for that carrier... so the device could still be taken to another carrier (assuming it's unlocked) and used on a different carriers network.

Agreed. Do you see a single mention of Apple in the two paragraphs above? No. My suggestion is directed to what the carriers should be doing (and yes, of course, law enforcement has to get involved too--that would have been expected). And yes, the government should put pressure on the carriers to do this too.

No, you are not correct, the blocking isn't only for that carrier. The blocking is EU-wide, so you can't take that same phone and go to another carrier in the EU.

diesel vdub wrote:

Again, a ridiculous step that inhibits the user's ability to troubleshoot their device or switch SIMS and therefore switch carriers at their will.

Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?

As far as I know, almost every wireless phone user (including the overwhelming majority of iphone users) in America are under some sort of long-term contract to a telecommunications carrier, in exchange for getting that device for free or at a reduced cost. This is especially true for most iphone users as the cost of purchasing one without a contract is out of the reach of most consumers. Therefore, the option to "switch carriers at will" simply doesn't exist for most people. So the idea that you would be inhibiting the power of people to switch carriers because they would not be empowered to remove their own SIM cards simply doesn't make realistic sense here. Even if they did decide to switch carriers, the new carrier would have to provide the SIM card anyway, and at that time could appropriately switch the SIM card out.

Again, I would invite you to look at stats of stolen phones (an iphones in particular) in the EU, Australia, S. Africa, etc, and compare those to the rate in the US. There is no comparison.

Your above statement: "Was any of the points made actually thought through before posting?" adds nothing constructive to the discussion.

Another post said SIM does not matter.

My iPhone is screwed up by software! How can I reset it??? physically or by my PC???

As a start you should start your own thread rather than hijacking one on a totally unrelated issue. When you do you should be more detailed in describing your problem.