Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls - Continued v2

iPhoneFanSince2G wrote:
btw - this is not fraud. There are millions of satisfied customers that don't have the problem or it does not affect them based on the way they use the phone.

Apple has said, "If you do not like the phone, return it undamaged within 30 days for a full refund, no questions asked"

How could any of this be fraud if you have a phone that does/did not work for you and you choose to keep it past the return window?

Again, right on the money.
ME's credibility is shot when he goes off on his crusade about Apple hatred. Most of the posters here did not read the work he did early doors and the careful clarity he brought to the table. If they only see the 'Apple is commiting fraud' rant, it undermines everything else he posts. ATM he's forcing people to view him as a troll.

People do so hate the taste of another's vindication though. Apple's statement will leave a sour taste in the mouths of some of the more ignorant muppets on the board.

It is funny though waking up to that news in your inbox and thinking, 'Yes!' It brightened my day no end. Maybe someone will now run classes on training people with PS issues to hold their phones like normal people. If it's gonna happen, I'd bet it'll happen in the US.

Also put it like this...

Apple may be trying or have already tried to adjust the sensor. Let's give them that. They may not be able to adjust it in a way that works for everybody. So then what should they do? As a business they would or should probably say we are "trying" to get that fixed in the next update. Problem is, what if they can't. Then what? Should they stop selling the phone? You already know the answer to that.

At that point they could say, "if you are not happy, you can return it within 30 days undamaged"

You see where I am going here...

Not trying to bash Apple or anything. Just think about it.

iPhoneFanSince2G wrote:
But so far Michael has been correct in every aspect. You may not like his style, but he has been correct.

Apple on the other hand hasn't fixed or given a definite as to when they will fix/(adjust).

Not sure what you are implying..?? (track record??)

They have not always been totally forthcoming with bad news. Do your own research. You will see.

btw - this is not fraud. There are millions of satisfied customers that don't have the problem or it does not affect them based on the way they use the phone.

Apple has said, "If you do not like the phone, return it undamaged within 30 days for a full refund, no questions asked"

How could any of this be fraud if you have a phone that does/did not work for you and you choose to keep it past the return window?

D1337 wrote:
Michael gets no respect from anyone that has two or more functioning brain cells. At first it looked like he might be a troll with a vested interest in making Apple look bad. He crossed that line long ago making libelous statements.

I'm assuming Apple has looked into who he is and decided A) He has nothing B)He is legally ******** C) Both A + B.

My money is on C. Apple has a good reputation of taking care of its customers. Accusing them of fraud just makes someone look stupid.

Until Apple releases their fix there is (as previously posted) and App called call guard that lets you use the phone if the PS issue is affecting you.

Message was edited by: iPhoneFanSince2G

Let me start off by saying that mbassoc2003 is a condescending f**khead. Then, in response to his comment about having to learn to hold the phone properly (yes I can learn *******, but why should I have too), I will refer to my rant posted on the last PS issue thread:

Umm...OK, I keep up with this thread because I like to know that others are having the same issues that I'm having and to see if someone just possibly might come up with the miracle fix. However, let's put this into perspective. When I had my iPhone 3GS, I would dial a number, put the phone against my ear, talk, then take the phone away from my ear, and press end. I didn't have to worry about holding it the right spot on my ear or face just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about not moving it around too much on my ear just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about adjusting the brightness of the screen just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about whether I had to perform a hard reset, or full reset and then a restore, or a full reset and then a resync but not restore just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about my face pressing buttons on the screen while in a phone call at all, period. Why should I have to worry about this with my iPhone 4? Do some of you still see that this is not a real problem just because it doesn't effect you? Do I have too deep of ear canals? So when you pencil d*cks get on here and make these patronizing suggestions about you need to do this or you need to do that or you need to take it back, I just get really pi$$ed off. GTFA!

Disgruntled-iPhoner wrote:
Yes I can learn *******, but why should I have too?

ROFLMAO

I bet you said that to the car dealer when they sold you a car with the indicator on the wrong side, or a different gear box. Why the **** should people be allowed to build phones with different methods of using them and holding them? You're absolutely right. All phones should be exactly the same, and usability and customer choice should be stamped out.

Or maybe, a company should be free in this world to market a phone to 99% of the population, make an absolute killing on it, and be able to say FO to the idiots who can't be ar$ed learnng to use the new phone. That's what Android is for. Go buy something else. That's exactly the message Apple have already told you. If you don't like it and can't deal with it, go buy another phone. The rest of the world will continue to use iPhones and support Apple's development.

Why the h£ll should you have to learn? Is that really your outliook on life? I bet you have a lot of conflict and stress with that attitude.

Disgruntled-iPhoner wrote:
When I had my iPhone 3GS, I would dial a number, put the phone against my ear, talk, then take the phone away from my ear, and press end. I didn't have to worry about holding it the right spot on my ear or face just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about not moving it around too much on my ear just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about adjusting the brightness of the screen just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about whether I had to perform a hard reset, or full reset and then a restore, or a full reset and then a resync but not restore just to make a phone call without pressing buttons with my face. I didn't have to worry about my face pressing buttons on the screen while in a phone call at all, period.

That's so funny, because that's exactly how the vast majority of people use their iPhone 4s. It rings. You answer the f'ing phone. You hand up. Never a single problem. But then we're just normanl iPhone users who don't have a PS issue and don't do whatever it is you do to make the issue happen.

You can live in ignorance. Bury your head in sand. Rant and rave about how woe is you and the injustice of the world, but at the end of the day, you're the one who can't use yopur phone. It's not Apple's problem that a tiny percentage of people can't get with the program. I'm sure they've done their best to placate and pander to those with the problem, but at the end of the day they have newer better things to be doing with their billions of dollars. Pandering to a miniscule percentage of people who will always be pi$$ed at something is just bad business.

Let's face it. Take any single product from anywhere in time. There were always people who couldn't use it, didn't like it, and couldn't vent their rage at the company. At least Apple gibe you a sounding board to whinge and whine on.

If you honestly believe you shouldn't have to adapt your usage patern to a new phone, maybe an Android phone is the worst g0ddam product on the planet for you. It doesn't have the apps you use, doesn't have all the settings in the same place, and you can't operate t by moving your fingers in the same pattern on the screen. You'd have to learn how to use both the new phone, and a whole new operating system aswell. Nightmare!

Condescending? It's easy with some people.

OK, here's the deal, Apple has pretty much confirmed that 4.1 will not fix this issue. I've had enough, I bought a replacment phone and the 4 goes back today. I hope nay owners do the same. My 3g and 3gs were great. I hope Apple decides to build a good phone again, but the 4 seems to be flawed.

hfrogness wrote:
OK, here's the deal, Apple has pretty much confirmed that 4.1 will not fix this issue. I've had enough, I bought a replacment phone and the 4 goes back today. I hope nay owners do the same. My 3g and 3gs were great. I hope Apple decides to build a good phone again, but the 4 seems to be flawed.

Good luck. What dd you go for BTW?
When they launch the iP4 for Verison, or when the iP5 lands, visit the boards and read up before jumping in and buying a handset. Apple are not stupid. They will have learned even if they won't talk about it.

mbassoc2003, only a sh!thead like you would think that a phone is so awesome that one would have to conform to a certain way of holding it for it to work like a phone, rather than the phone working for everyone, regardless of how it is held.

mbassoc2003 wrote:

hfrogness wrote:
OK, here's the deal, Apple has pretty much confirmed that 4.1 will not fix this issue. I've had enough, I bought a replacment phone and the 4 goes back today. I hope nay owners do the same. My 3g and 3gs were great. I hope Apple decides to build a good phone again, but the 4 seems to be flawed.

Good luck. What dd you go for BTW?
When they launch the iP4 for Verison, or when the iP5 lands, visit the boards and read up before jumping in and buying a handset. Apple are not stupid. They will have learned even if they won't talk about it.

"Apple are not stupid"? Well, you apparently are quite stupid. As far as your car analogy, you're a bit off. A car should drive regardless of where the indicator is or the type of gear box. And it shouldn't matter how you hold the steering wheel. Let me make it simple for you to understand. With my iPhone 3GS, I put the phone against my ear and the sensor was good enough to know that if I moved it around without completely moving it away from my face, that the screen doesn't get turned on. With my iPhone 4, I can have the phone up against my ear and without moving it around at all the screen will all of the sudden come on. That is not using the phone improperly, that is a defect. You are the one that needs to get a clue. And no, I shouldn't have to learn how to hold a phone. It should just work.

Futhermore, I'm not sure why you decided to insult my intelligence based on my original post given that it did not include insults directed at you or anyone else. Do you just enjoy trolling forums and replying with insults?

And now I will stop feeding the troll (mbassoc2003).

Message was edited by: Disgruntled-iPhoner

Message was edited by: Disgruntled-iPhoner

@Disgruntled-idiot - Nice post. You get less and less coherent the more you rage. It's so cool.

You are SO wrong. A car does work regardless of where the indicator is, but there are always retards who don't have the co-ordination of brain power to drive cars, and while they may have learned to use their mother's mobility scooter or their father's tractor, that doesn't meant they should automaticly have the God given right to have all cars adapted to work the way their little brains work. Provided the car manufacturer sells a car that drives and is safe if driven normally in the hands of 99% of people's hands, the 1% of idiots who, for whatever reason cannot operate their particular vehicle correctly, is neither their responsibility nor their concern to pander to.

Now, for whatever reason or freak of nature, you have found yourself marginalised into that percentage of people who cannot operate a new device that is on the market. Ranting with frustration and whining about the sheer injustice of the world isn't going to get your phone redesigned, and it isn't going to change the laws of physics. You have two choices...


1. Take your phone back, get your refund, and then either bear a grudge or complain or whatever is your pleasure.
2. Keep your phone and either deal with your affliction or adapt.

You can feel as agreived and wronged as you like, but it's only your life you're f"cking with. Apple don't give a sh't, and whilst you may want to bury your head in the sand and complain, 'oh, woe is you', the rest of the people here need to wake up and smell the coffee. All the 'trolls' as you call them have been right on the button at every turn. Not once getting it wrong. Every 'play' and vvery turn in the saga. You may not like the message, but that's your problem. No-one elses.

It's a hardware flaw. There is no fix. Deal with it and get a life.
I believe I posted those exact same words some 30 days ago.

Here is the latest that I saw on Phone Dogs site:
The folks at The Next Web are reporting that, according to an Australian Apple spokesperson, iOS 4.1 will not include the fix for the iPhone 4 proximity sensor problem that some users have been having.
So guess we are all left out to dry for now..

Larry

First of all, TNW is not Apple. So some woman who supposedly is with Apple, supposedly said 4.1 does not fix the PS issue. So what? This is about as credible as Gizmodo reporting someone from Apple said something. And here you all are, taking it as Gospel and happily patting yourselves on your backs for "knowing in advance" your "cyrstal ball" was indeed accurate.

Maybe TNW got it right. Maybe they didn't get it right. There wasn't even a credible quote from the Apple lady in Australia. The point is, we won't know until we know ourselves.

Apple Australia is pretty removed from Cupertino. Apple always keeps their cards closest to home. In my opinion (which isn't worth any more than anyone else's opinion) the "fat lady hasn't sung" and maybe, just maybe no one except Steve himself really knows anything.......

Even though I don't suffer the PS issue, I will feel badly if Apple does not find a solution for those who do. But, I won't apologize to people like ME who have crusaded their agenda on this thread, doing their best to intimidate anyone who didn't buy their superior knowledge (gag).

There's just no point in jumping in and saying "I told you so." This story is still not over........

mbassoc2003 wrote:
@bhwmd1 - You deliberately missed the point of the post to further your own rant. The point is, everyone so far who has experienced PS issues, has experienced PS issues on ALL iPhones they have received in exchenge, or tested/borrowed from friends. Your premis is that every single person with faulty a iP4 somehow has friends, local stores and local store replacement stock that is faulty in it's entirity, because, somehow, by magic, every one of these users seems to only ever come into contact with faulty phones.

On the flip side of this, and by your own admittion, there are millions of people who do not have the PS issue, and somehow, as if by magic, they only come into contact with iP4s that do not have the PS issue. You being the single sole exception.

How can you explain why users with the PS issue only ever get phones or borrow phones with PS issues, and users without PS issues cannot find or recreate the PS issue on handsets? The only logical explanation is that the PS issue is a user initiated flaw similar to the antenna issue that is present on all handsets and only affects certain people based on their usage.

Unless you wish to claim that Apple have faulty LED sensors and have specially put aside faulty stock to continue to p!ss off users who have a PS issue?

Your data and preposition is pure bulls't and cannot even be extrapolated from the facts you have access to, without even taking on board the data supplied by people here, the vast majority of whom have no agenda other than to get their frustrations off their chests. The people here are not lying of providing false information. When a guy had been given 5 or 6 handsets that are ALL exhibiting a PS issue, he is not being 'unlucky' and always receiving faulty handsets. When a guy knows dosens of other people all of whom have the same problems on their phones, he is not 'unlucky' and only know losers. The fact that the overwhelming majority of users of this board do agree upon is that the PS issue is present on all handsets and it is the design of that handset that is the cause.

Software/hardware and fixable/unfixable are all debatable and Apple ultimately will have the say on that. But your entire post is bullsh't.

First of all, I'm neither ranting nor pushing an agenda. Like you, I'd like to see a resolution to this problem.

A bit of background just to put things in perspective - I've been a software engineer for over 25 years working on some very complex software. I'm also an EE by education. I think I might be able to contribute to a discussion on a problem like this. Maybe not.

Next - There is a way in which a person having the PS issue could have the issue persist across multiple replacement phones without Apple being involved in some grand conspiracy: Let us suppose just for the sake of argument that this flaw is software related. That's not known one way or the other but let's just dig a bit deeper - If it were software and it was caused by some combination of 3rd party apps AND the usage pattern of those apps by the user, then replacing the hardware might not solve the problem.

Even in the case where the user sets up the replacement phone as 'New' and does not restore from a backup, the user in all likely hood will eventually load up his favorite apps and start using them the same way as before. Has anyone here done a clean install and left the phone bone stock for an extended period of time? If so, and the issue is immediately present, then this theory fails.

Now let's look at your contention that this must be a hardware problem. Sure could be. No doubt. But if that's all it is, why no fix? Why no rolling change at the factory? A simple case of bad design or bad batch of parts would show on the test harness right away.

Even if Apple didn't want to admit there was a problem on earlier IP4s, we'd know because recently manufactured IP4s wouldn't have the problem. Yet some still do. That leads me to believe the problem is deeper.

FWIW I still maintain that this problem is not universal to all handsets. There are many users here and elsewhere without the problem. That certainly adds to the mystery but all your shouting and calling my posts BS won't change that.

rbrylawski wrote:
First of all, TNW is not Apple. So some woman who supposedly is with Apple, supposedly said 4.1 does not fix the PS issue. So what? This is about as credible as Gizmodo reporting someone from Apple said something. And here you all are, taking it as Gospel and happily patting yourselves on your backs for "knowing in advance" your "cyrstal ball" was indeed accurate.

Fiona Martin is Apple's Corporate Communications Manager. She just happened to make the statement in Australia. And yes, if the 'leak' was passed in a statement from her, I'd say it could be taken as 'gospel' and was probably very deliberate and timed. You aren't going to get any more than what's been given. Apple do not talk about 'problems' with their products as a matter of policy. When they do, it is very careful and very controlled. If hope is all you have to live for, then yes, your phone is going to be fixed with iOS4.1, but you'll have a lot of sand in your ears.

mbassoc2003 wrote:

rbrylawski wrote:
First of all, TNW is not Apple. So some woman who supposedly is with Apple, supposedly said 4.1 does not fix the PS issue. So what? This is about as credible as Gizmodo reporting someone from Apple said something. And here you all are, taking it as Gospel and happily patting yourselves on your backs for "knowing in advance" your "cyrstal ball" was indeed accurate.

Fiona Martin is Apple's Corporate Communications Manager. She just happened to make the statement in Australia. And yes, if the 'leak' was passed in a statement from her, I'd say it could be taken as 'gospel' and was probably very deliberate and timed. You aren't going to get any more than what's been given. Apple do not talk about 'problems' with their products as a matter of policy. When they do, it is very careful and very controlled. If hope is all you have to live for, then yes, your phone is going to be fixed with iOS4.1, but you'll have a lot of sand in your ears.

Again, I don't have the problem, so my hope is for those who do. But, the quote is still not an official statement from Apple, so if you want to take it as Gospel, then good for you......

I haven't experienced any problems so far (two weeks) on my iPhone 4 with the proximity sensor on phone calls. In the absence of a problem during calls, is there a way to test the proximity sensor? I apologize in advance if my question has been answered in this thread, but I didn't have time to read the hundreds of posts on the topic.

P.S. My wife who got her iPhone 4 at the same time as me seemed to be having the problem occasionally. About a week ago, Apple replaced her phone because of a blown external speaker. She hasn't had any problems with calls so far with the replacement iPhone 4. (I'm not suggesting there is a relationship between the speaker and the PS.) Don't know what to make of this, but I though I would report it.

mbassoc2003,

I'm not sure what to call you, but you have been brain washed by Steve "Apple" Jobs, make you believe that there is no issue or is nothing that a bumper can't fix, to make you believe that you actually need this flawed phone or you are not cool by today's trends if you don't have one and learn how to use it Apple's way, ah! I know....PEA BRAIN!
I was a happy iPhone user since day 1, first gen., 3G, 3GS and iPhone 4, which by the way, gave me the push to seek other options, the iP 4 it didn't work as intended or the same as the other ones (PS issues, antenna issues, reception issues (some blame AT&T for that) and a few more. I'm still with AT&T with an Android 2.1 phone, is night and day my friend, no PS issues, no antenna issues and most of all NO RECEPTION ISSUES!, that's a phone that works the way it should, by the way no dropped calls either, on top of that an open OS. For sure I won't be back with the iPhone trend, although I enjoyed all of them but the last one.
I had a problem, didn't like it, returned it, found something else and I am a happy man again, but don't come here patronizing with the ones that say, "hey, learn how to f**ing use it little man", you give a bad name to mature men around here and me, your manhood membership card should be revoked, get your head out of your butt and keep using your iPhone 4 with the tips of your finger, not me.
To end this, if I know Apple fixes the issues, I probably buy another one, until then, no chance, I make my own decisions, not follow what Apple tells me what I should do, unlike someone I know.