Level 1

29 points

Time Machine backups taking long, after macOS Sonoma update on my MacBook.

Ever since I upgraded my M1 Macbook Pro from the immediately previous Mac OS version to Sonoma, I have had nothing but problems using Time Machine to perform backups on an external SSD. No issues at all prior to Sonoma doing incremental backups for about one year - took about 20 minutes per incremental backup. My first backup attempt using Sonoma, I gave up after 3-1/2 hours when Time Machine reported 3 hours still remaining. Tried a second time while Time Machine had been running for some time and while on the phone Apple Support , gave up after 2-1/2 hours. I had other tasks to attend to. On a third attempt at Apple Support's recommendation, I let it run to see if it would error off. It did not error off, but this time it took about 3-1/2 hours for an incremental backup. Apple Support gave me a follow up call after the last backup completed at 3+ hours. They requested that I reinstall Sonoma and run Time Machine again and report back. Spoke with Apple Support after the reinstall of Sonoma and Time Machine backup completed. Time Machine backup completed in about one hour. Apple Support then requested that I initiate a new incremental backup while on the phone with them - an absolute disaster followed. I shared that Time Machine was reporting over 17,000 changes after about 30 minutes of idle time, with no activity, no browsing, no nothing , just sitting idle while charging. While on the phone with Apple Support again, Time Machine reported an estimated backup time of 10 hours! Terminated the backup and communicated such to Apple Support. As a software PM, there is no doubt in my mind that there is a significant flaw in Apple's Mac OS Sonoma and the Time Machine app. It bothers me that I have also wasted many hours over several days trying to resolve this issue. I have zero confidence that my Time Machine backups are correct and usable.

[Re-Titled by Moderator]

MacBook Pro (M1, 2020)

Posted on Oct 1, 2023 7:44 PM

Top-ranking reply

Kurt Friis

Level 1

19 points

Posted on Nov 6, 2023 6:40 AM

I have the same problem. Both on a Mini M1 and a MacBook 14 Pro M1 Pro.

Backups worked perfectly on Ventura BEFORE upgrade and instal of Sonoma 14.1.

Both make Time Machine backups each hour. To local external disk, and to a networked share.

Backups are 2TB (max size) for the M1 (HDD and network) and 4TB (max size) for the Macbook 14 Pro (SSD and network). In total a maximum of 12TB. All are encrypted.

None of the backup targets are full., but they contain recent history (document versions, code versions etc), that I do not want to loose.

In energy saving, I have specifically set "Don't go to sleep, when screen is closed", and 5 seconds after screen closes, password or fingerprint is required. The M1 has an Apple keyboard with fingerprint reader. Works.

There have NEVER been problems with this setup BEFORE Sonoma 14.1

AFTER, I periodically get the error message: "The file “BackupDisk” couldn’t be opened because you don’t have permission to view it." I have some choice words for that statement.

I can reproduce the following:

If I work on the machines: No problems. TimeMachine will do, what it has to do. So accessing the local drives or remote networked backups is no problem. Credentials work. Data is correct. Time Machine can access ALL four backup targets without problem. I have permission. Unrestricted and any time, the computer screen does not go to sleep.

Whether the backup takes minutes or hours. NO DIFFERENCE.

If I decide, that I do NOT want to sit by the computer for hours on end, just to make TimeMachine Backups possible, and leave the machine to continue on it's own, the screen will of course go to sleep (no pause screen). The display (internal or external) turns off after the specified timeout of 30 minutes (on external power). Works.

I have NOT tested in battery mode, YET, but assume that if you use shorter display timeout in battery mode, you'll experience the problem far, far more often.

The problem seems to exclusively being triggered, byt the display turning off (probably with a five second grace period). When I activate the keyboard, and log in (fingerprint), the TimeMachine backup has stopped, with a red exclamation mark, and the above error.

There are NO credential problems, before the screen goes to sleep (which is standard) and requires a password for login (which is standard basic security procedure). After 30 minutes inactivity and 5 seconds grace time.

Now if I login again, and restart the backup, there are NO problems. And as long as I produce periodic keyboard input - or other activity - on the mashine performing the backup, NO PROBLEMS EXIST, and the backup completes.

As I see it, there's a bug in TimeMachine or Sonoma 14.1's handling credentials for access to encrypted backups (on network or local media), while the displays is off, and the requirement for renewed user login is activated after a five seconds grace period (in my case).

TimeMachine has ALL the credentials it has always needed. TimeMachine can access all backups (remote or local) reliably and consistently, as long as the display is on.

A clear bug. One hundred percent reproducible.

After login, just force Time Machine to backup immediately. It will start the backup without problem. I have all the credentials required. For as long as it is needed, as long as my display does NOT turn off dure to inactivity.

The problem could probably be solved quickly, if Apple released a script, that could be run in terminal, and convinced Sonoma, that the credentials used by TimeMachine are completely kosher.

Or immediately release a security update removing the problem.

In my case, the problem can be reproduced.

In my case the problem does not exist, while doing backups, NOT lasting longer than display inactivity timeout.

In my case the problem does not exist, if the inactivity timeout is not triggered (and the need for password entry/fingerprint turns up).

Please check, if the "activity solution" also solves your problem, BEFORE tampering with backups, that may be perfectly good.

Sigh...

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56 replies

ku4hx

Level 7

23,688 points

Oct 2, 2023 4:13 AM in response to rasmaxwell

Since you have no confidence in their accuracy, I suggest you erase the drives and start from scratch.

One of many: https://www.macworld.com/article/224855/how-to-verify-a-time-machine-backup.html

hwinkler

Level 1

5 points

Oct 30, 2023 4:07 PM in response to DarkSchneider_

That's a disappointing answer: Discard your current backups and start fresh. Is that the best the TM developers can do? honestly, TM isn't a reliable backup at all.

Dazw

Level 1

12 points

Dec 12, 2023 4:42 AM in response to rasmaxwell

I've got the same issue. I deleted my previous back ups and started fresh. I've found if I start a back up manually TM starts immediately and completes within a reasonable time as it did previously.

pllacey

Level 1

9 points

Oct 23, 2023 1:45 PM in response to chdsl

Done! According to Apple tech-support my issue is due to "incompatible files" involving Adobe plug-ins. Although backups occur I cannot access them via Time Machine but instead through Finder. Doable, but very inconvenient until Adobe (according to Apple) provides an update...

Oct 23, 2023 2:24 PM in response to rasmaxwell

I'm having a similar problem, backups were working fine, but got insanely slow when I went to Sonoma. My external backup disc has been fine for a long time, and has lots of backups from before Sonoma.

The system logs show a message about every minute:

SystemUIServer: (TimeMachine) [com.apple.TimeMachine:General] Failed to enumerate URLs under /Volumes/BackupDisk for SnapshotStorage reuse with error Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=257 "The file “BackupDisk” couldn’t be opened because you don’t have permission to view it."

This suggests to me that Time Machine is having permission problems with external drives contains data written with earlier versions of MacOSX. And it's spinning its wheels getting error messages over and over. Sigh.

Backups do seem to complete, but it takes a lo-o-ong time.

I hope Apple fixes this soon, because I have no clue how to fix it.

Nov 3, 2023 1:39 AM in response to rasmaxwell

Same here. Since Sonoma, Time Machine is backing up everything from the scratch.

I deleted my Time Machine backup, because all the backups were deleted anyway because of this issue.

I had backups back to February, now only about 2 days back because disc space... xD

I'm backing up to a 18 TB G-Drive: my Mac Studio's internal drive and 3 external drives, which is about 6 TB in total.

This works 3-4 times and the next time Time Machine starts to backup from the scratch. Several TBs!

So the hourly backup takes up to half a day...

There really is a big flaw in Time Machine since Sonoma that needs to be fixed asap.

EDIT: I see I have posted here already, sorry.

Dec 2, 2023 4:55 AM in response to rasmaxwell

I have a similar issue and it seems to be linked to a spotlight file (access right issues?). Quickly after I re-index spotlight, Spotlight works and so does Time Machine. But once my computer goes on stand-by (if I stop using it for an hour or so), Spotlight doesn't show the right results and Time Machine returns an error message. More details here: Anyone having issues with spotlight in So… - Apple Community

the latest MacOS version did give me so hope... for less than one hour :-(

Owl-53

Level 10

102,193 points

Oct 2, 2023 4:42 AM in response to rasmaxwell

Although Time Machine Backup Utility has been around for many years and is built into the Operating System.

There is no additional cost involved but does mean you have to use it, if your are not confident in its' reliable.

There are alternatives available and yes there are costs.

One such alternative I personally use as an adjunct to TM Backup

https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6

refer to the section called " Using CCC "

dalee79

Level 1

12 points

Jan 20, 2024 2:02 PM in response to micradar

I have exactly the same problem! iCloud is fully synced. I have Carbon Copy Cloner which works without fail. So will stick to that. I also have Sonoma install on a drive that will save time if reinstalling from scratch. Reinstalling over the original did not stop the problem.

Oct 12, 2023 7:27 PM in response to rasmaxwell

rasmaxwell is nothing if not persistent! I too have had problems with Time Machine, and I'm not sure that I've completed a successful backup since upgrading to Sonoma. I hope Apple releases a fix soon...

rasmaxwell Author

Level 1

29 points

Oct 26, 2023 7:01 AM in response to rasmaxwell

Ran my first backup under Sonoma 14.1. It should have been an incremental backup from that of several days ago. Time Machine backup took 1 hour and 5 minutes. Time to complete backup bounced all over from 23 minutes to 2 hours. IMO, Time Machine still broken under Sonoma. Never had this type of problem in years under several previous versions of multiple Mac OS’s. Apple Support is useless on this issue. Had case elevated to the Apple technical team - no response after taking multiple recorded backup sessions at their direction under the initial version of Sonoma. I am leaning towards suspecting that Apple is taking a back door approach to forcing users to backup to iCloud instead of an external SSD, which of course also allows Apple to make more money on selling larger iCloud storage plans.

Nov 9, 2023 6:39 AM in response to Kurt Friis

I tried this out, you are absolutely right. Watching Time Machine backing up with no inactivity, all is running as it should.

When the display is going into inactivity and some time after I activate it, Time Machine stopped and had the "!"-sign. Starting the backup again shows thousands of changes and then starts to backup everything from scratch...

Nov 14, 2023 2:19 PM in response to Mike R

Thank you for your feedback. Nice to know, that there a remedies in some cases.

I have APFS formated disks.

The odd thing is, that since upgrading to Sonoma 14.1.1 the problem seems to have disappeared (or become far less noticable). Time will tell, if it is so.

But…

What I have noticed, though, is that encrypted sparsebundles (since 14.1.1?) have been modified (third party software previously able to read sparsebundle content suddenly fails completely).

The previous version was “1”, but after opening a sparsebundle in 14.1.1 the version has been changed to “2” in info.plist inside the “collection” or sparsebundle content. This is significant, since the modifications also affect network based encrypted TimeMachine backups (also sparsebundles)

I copied a sparsebundle to another disk (as a safety measure), edited the version number back to “1”, and opened the sparsebundle (Sonoma 14.1.1 upgraded machine). This worked, but after closing the sparsebundle, the version was again set to “2”.

DO NOT repeat this test on original material.

This was purely done as a test to establish, if Sonoma 14.1.1 is responsible. Sonoma 14.1.1 modifies sparsebundle version 1 to version 2. Without doubt. The follow-up question is “WHY?”

A drastic modification, like this, without prior warning, resulting in third party software suddenly becoming unusable, is a bit disconcerting. Especially since network based encrypted TimeMachine backups (also sparsebundles) have also become affected (version modified to “2” without any warning).

If it only affects the “actual version digit” alone, or more significant modifications take place in the actual content in the TimeMachine backup is completely unknown for now.

The big question is, whether machines with earlier macOS versions can get access to version “2” backups at all, if - let’s say - the main machinery converted the format to version “2” (that in some cases cannot be opened and read by existing third party software). Thereby making the backup unusable, in case the main machinery becomes unavailable (theft, defect, damage - whatever).

Rather important to know.

If you have existing network based TimeMachine backups, it may be pertinent to look at the stored version, and creating a copy of the “network situated sparsebundle”, BEFORE allowing Sonoma based computer to access network based TimeMachine backups. Just as a precaution for securing backward compatibility, if severe side effects could be caused by this unexpected “version upgrade”.

I’d have appreciated a warning, before essential data safety elements like backups are modified. Especially since backward compatibility is not guaranteed for the encrypted sparsebundles (whether network based TimeMachine created or directly created and used).

Currently I’m in contact with a third party app developer, due to sudden, unexpected incompatibilities caused by the version being altered from 1 to 2 resulting in immediate read errors.

Anyone able to see and verify the same “modifications” in network based TimeMachine backups or ordinary sparsebundles in daily use?

Regards

Apr 29, 2024 4:49 AM in response to micradar

Approximately once a year, I have a time machine issue. The last one occurred after a Ventura update -- Time Machine was stuck on "connecting to backup disc". After hours on the phone with Apple (up to 3rd level support), they could not solve it, and told me that they only support time capsules, not other devices. Hey Apple -- you haven't sold time capsules in years, and I outgrew my last one! If you sold them, I would buy one.

So now I've spent hours on the phone with Western Digital. They have determined the backup device is working fine, and suggested I upgrade the OS on the Mac. Upgraded to Sonoma, and voila - the connecting to backup disc problem is resolved. I'm now stuck on "Preparing Backup"

Hey Apple -- either sell Time capsules, or recognize when a Time Machine problem is yours, like in the case of this ventura update. Also, warn us if we are going to have to delete our old time machine backups when there is an OS update, because it is looking like I will need to do this now!

Jun 11, 2024 12:55 PM in response to rasmaxwell

macOS Sonoma 14.5 and Time Machine are still behaving strangely. Either it backs up at incrementally an extremely slow data rate OR re-backs up my entire 1.43TB Pictures folder at a faster data rate. Either way it takes many hours to complete. I upgraded via Migration Assistant from an old mid-2011 iMac running MacOS High Sierra to a new M2 Max Mac Studio running Sonoma. All of my photos are on an external Thunderbolt SSD that tests at 2830MB/s reads. I hope Apple fixes this in an update soon.

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Time Machine backups taking long, after macOS Sonoma update on my MacBook.