Advice for buying new iMac

I have an iMac (2013 model) purchased in 2014 with MacOS 10.14.6., 16 GB memory, 21.5” monitor, wired mouse model # A1152, wired keyboard. The internal storage is 1.12 TB, 895 GB available (about 220 GB used). I have a port extension to handle 3 more external USB connections that the 4 USB ports cannot handle. The Timemachine backups go to an external drive.


My imac does a great job, I have a lot more storage than I need, the monitor is excellent. I never had any performance issues. My most used applications are email and MS Office. I could not care less for any new "features".


Unfortunately, with Apple's yearly OS releases I am left behind, and my computer cannot be upgraded to Sonoma, I can no longer update it and benefit from security patches or support.


So I have zero choices (based on what I see), but buy a new computer. I am considering buying a new desktop, probably another imac. I looked at what the Apple store offers now. The "basic" imac model with the 24" monitor comes with only 2 ports and 256k storage. None of them seems to be enough and to support what I have requires additional "components" such as USB C to USB A connectors, maybe a docking station with additional ports and a lot more storage space. A new external drive was also recommended. By the time I add this up it will be more than $2,000.


I would appreciate any suggestions for somehow keeping the cost down, as this is a lot more than I was planning to spend (while throwing out a perfectly good computer).


[Re-Titled by Moderator]

iMac 21.5″, macOS 10.14

Posted on Nov 30, 2023 2:42 PM

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Posted on Jan 18, 2024 7:37 PM

Suzy2014 wrote:

• After a lot of agony, I decided to buy a new iMac. I'd appreciate some additional info/advise regarding the ports, adapters, hub. With all the prior lessons, I still do not feel comfortable making decisions about the hub I need.

I need capability to connect 6 devices that now have USB 3 connectors (old type): printer, scanner UPS, 2 external drives, keyboard). I would like to continue using the existing wired keyboard, which has plugged in it a wired mouse (to avoid the hassle with having to charge more devices). I hope they will work with the new iMac.

The latest (8 core GPU) iMac has only two Thunderbird 3/USB 4 ports that can be used for:

Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)
• Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately).


The higher-end 24" M3 iMacs have two additional USB-C (USB 3) ports, and a Gigabit Ethernet port.


It was suggested that I use the Caldigit Element hub which is $200.
https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

I am sorry, but I cannot figure out if this hub would meet my needs as described above, hopefully without adapters.


That device would connect to your iMac using a Thunderbolt cable. It would give you

  • Four downstream USB-A ports that can run at up to 10 Gbps (USB 3.1 Gen 2) speeds
  • Three downstream USB-C (Thunderbolt) ports


It would not increase the number of external displays your iMac can drive (one). The dual display support that the description talks about depends on there being dual display support on the computer.


Could you please let me know:
if the above hub would do the job


It could do the job, but only with the aid of additional hubs or adapters (USB-C to USB-A). While it is probably a high-quality device, I think it's aimed first and foremost at people who want to split one Thunderbolt chain into 3 Thunderbolt chains. That accounts for a lot of the cost – cost that won't do you any good if all that you use it for is attaching USB-A devices.


• if there is any other hub that would be better for my needs that you would recommend.


Other World Computing and SonnetTech have competing docks that offer more types of ports. I don't see any that have six USB-A ports, although the SonnetTech Echo 20 Thunderbolt 4 SuperDock has eight USB 3 ports: half USB-A, half USB-C.


https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-docks

https://www.sonnettech.com/home.html


Here's something that might work. It's not the only example of its type, just the first one that I found.


Amazon – Powered USB Hub RSHTECH Type C to 7 Port USB 3.0 Data Port Hub Expander Aluminum Portable Splitter with Universal 5V AC Adapter and Individual On/Off Switches for Laptop and PC(Black)


This hub isn't nearly as versatile or high-end as the CalDigit dock you mentioned, or the OWC and SonnetTech docks to which I referred above. All that it gives you is USB-A ports: nothing else. It's from some brand that I never heard of before in my life.


It costs all of $26 USD (before 10% coupon and shipping) and would give you seven USB-A ports.


To my mind, this – or something like it – is the right tool for this job. If a time comes when you need something more, then you can look at the $200 – $300 Thunderbolt hubs and docks.


There are so many listed at Amazon and I cannot make sense out of them. Apple staff doesn't help with this....


Basically all that you are looking for is a powered USB-A hub that has a lot of USB 3.0 ports. It's nice if the hub happens to connect to the computer via a USB-C plug … but given that you can get USB-C to USB-A adapters that operate at USB 3 speeds, having a USB-C plug on the uplink is optional.

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Jan 18, 2024 7:37 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

• After a lot of agony, I decided to buy a new iMac. I'd appreciate some additional info/advise regarding the ports, adapters, hub. With all the prior lessons, I still do not feel comfortable making decisions about the hub I need.

I need capability to connect 6 devices that now have USB 3 connectors (old type): printer, scanner UPS, 2 external drives, keyboard). I would like to continue using the existing wired keyboard, which has plugged in it a wired mouse (to avoid the hassle with having to charge more devices). I hope they will work with the new iMac.

The latest (8 core GPU) iMac has only two Thunderbird 3/USB 4 ports that can be used for:

Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)
• Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately).


The higher-end 24" M3 iMacs have two additional USB-C (USB 3) ports, and a Gigabit Ethernet port.


It was suggested that I use the Caldigit Element hub which is $200.
https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

I am sorry, but I cannot figure out if this hub would meet my needs as described above, hopefully without adapters.


That device would connect to your iMac using a Thunderbolt cable. It would give you

  • Four downstream USB-A ports that can run at up to 10 Gbps (USB 3.1 Gen 2) speeds
  • Three downstream USB-C (Thunderbolt) ports


It would not increase the number of external displays your iMac can drive (one). The dual display support that the description talks about depends on there being dual display support on the computer.


Could you please let me know:
if the above hub would do the job


It could do the job, but only with the aid of additional hubs or adapters (USB-C to USB-A). While it is probably a high-quality device, I think it's aimed first and foremost at people who want to split one Thunderbolt chain into 3 Thunderbolt chains. That accounts for a lot of the cost – cost that won't do you any good if all that you use it for is attaching USB-A devices.


• if there is any other hub that would be better for my needs that you would recommend.


Other World Computing and SonnetTech have competing docks that offer more types of ports. I don't see any that have six USB-A ports, although the SonnetTech Echo 20 Thunderbolt 4 SuperDock has eight USB 3 ports: half USB-A, half USB-C.


https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-docks

https://www.sonnettech.com/home.html


Here's something that might work. It's not the only example of its type, just the first one that I found.


Amazon – Powered USB Hub RSHTECH Type C to 7 Port USB 3.0 Data Port Hub Expander Aluminum Portable Splitter with Universal 5V AC Adapter and Individual On/Off Switches for Laptop and PC(Black)


This hub isn't nearly as versatile or high-end as the CalDigit dock you mentioned, or the OWC and SonnetTech docks to which I referred above. All that it gives you is USB-A ports: nothing else. It's from some brand that I never heard of before in my life.


It costs all of $26 USD (before 10% coupon and shipping) and would give you seven USB-A ports.


To my mind, this – or something like it – is the right tool for this job. If a time comes when you need something more, then you can look at the $200 – $300 Thunderbolt hubs and docks.


There are so many listed at Amazon and I cannot make sense out of them. Apple staff doesn't help with this....


Basically all that you are looking for is a powered USB-A hub that has a lot of USB 3.0 ports. It's nice if the hub happens to connect to the computer via a USB-C plug … but given that you can get USB-C to USB-A adapters that operate at USB 3 speeds, having a USB-C plug on the uplink is optional.

Jan 21, 2024 10:21 AM in response to Suzy2014

Hi Suzy, I have read through all the posts to your original query.


You do have another option. Namely to continue using what you have until it wears out and stops working. In that regard, anyone using an older Mac should always have one and preferably more than one good, verified backup. Backups can be verified by restoring selected files and folders now and then. All electronic devices do fail at some point, it's a matter of when not if.


It sounds like your existing Mac serves your needs perfectly. If you wait longer to replace it, you will be getting a better new Mac because they get faster and better every year.


I am writing this on a 2015 iMac running Monterey, which is MacOS 12.7.2. This is also an "obsolete" computer but these Macs are still quite secure. Assuming you are on a network behind a good router with normal security turned on and good passwords, and you have the Mac firewall on, I think the chances of you being infiltrated are nil, much lower than the risk of a catastrophic automobile accident every time you drive your car around the block, yet you don't worry much about that do you? By the way, I have newer Macs running Sonoma with all the latest, but I like this 2015 iMac as it has a great display and is more comfortable to work at than the other Macs I have which are laptops.


If you do end up getting a new Mac (which you really don't need to do at this point), I would keep it simple and get either a new iMac, in which case don't skimp on the specifications because like me, it sounds like you use your computers for ~ 10 years or more, so make sure it is well equipped from the get go, or a well equipped refurbished one with a good warranty which you can get from either Apple directly or OWC MacSales. These two sources have a great reputation for refurbished Macs. A local Apple Authorized Service Provider (third party store) may also offer good used Mac deals with warranties and also help you with the "conversion" to a newer Mac.


But after reading carefully your questions and concerns, it sounds like you really don't need to switch to a new Mac right now. Because what you have is working well for you!


By the way, with a new iMac you may find it takes some effort to continue using your older printers, scanners, etc. I am familiar with this and as an engineer, am quite comfortable dealing with it, I am even still using a 2011 Canon printer/scanner and a 2014 Epson printer/scanner. But to get all their functions working under Sonoma required some workarounds were needed. My wife had been using the 2015 iMac and I set her up with a new M1 iMac last year. I had to scurry around and do a bit of work to make EVERYTHING look just like it used to for her, and now she is thrilled with the new(er) computer but I had to go to some effort to make it seamless. (She is still annoyed that the old pushbutton scan function on the 2011 Canon printer/scanner no longer works with Sonoma, she has to scan with that device in a different manner now and she doesn't like that change.)


None of the reasons you mention for getting a new Mac sound compelling to me. Personally, I always welcome finding reasons to buy a new Mac, and am considering one of the new laptops now, there is nothing more fun than a new Mac. But if you have financial constraints, and what you have works great for you right now, I don't see the need to disrupt your life at this point with a new purchase and conversion of all the peripherals.


By the way, your iMac has fast connections/ports, gigabit ethernet and 802.11n WiFi which are not bad at all. So it is by no means outdated in those respects. To get the best security you can (optionally) install Catalina 10.15.7 (check that your Microsoft software is compatible).


Just a maybe contrarian perspective, but as someone who still has good working Macs dating from 2010, 2013, and 2015, as well as the newest and latest, you really don't HAVE to change to a new Mac at this point.

Nov 30, 2023 6:42 PM in response to Suzy2014

If previously mentioned I apologize for missing it.


As mentioned by others, you cannot use a Mac mini, which is a standalone desktop computer, and use an iMac for a monitor. However, Mac mini is compatible with non-Apple monitors. Nearly any HDMI or USB-C monitor will work! However, after adding the cost of a monitor with a Mac mini, the cost is similar to that of an iMac, which has a far superior display than a lot on the market for its price.


For specs, I think 8GB of Apple's newer, more efficient, unified memory would be just fine for you. Even though on paper it seems like a downgrade from 16GB, in practice, it should not be. Furthermore, 512GB of storage should work just fine for you. And if your needs ever greatly expand, there's always external storage available.


You may have luck buying from Apple Refurbished. Certified refurbished products are backed by a one-year warranty and the Apple Certified Refurbished promise: Why Refurbished - Apple. They are also eligible for AppleCare+, just like any new Mac.


This iMac from the refurbished store may be a great option: Refurbished 24-inch iMac Apple M1 Chip with 8‑Core CPU and 8‑Core GPU, Gigabit Ethernet - Silver - Apple. The M1 iMac is still extremely powerful and a huge upgrade from your current iMac.


What external devices or other peripherals do you need to connect to your iMac? We could explore external docking or hub solutions to connect them to your new Mac.


Also, what's the age of your external Time Machine disk? It less than 4-years, I wouldn't recommend replacing it just yet. However, if older, I would.


I hope this helps!


-Jack

Jan 19, 2024 12:41 AM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

Thank you very much. I have no need for any additional monitor or the 10 GPU model.

Just as part of learning, if I were to consider the OWC 14 Port Thunderbolt Dock (at the eshop link you sent), would it mean that I could use the available ports on this dock as follows:

Dual Thunderbolt (USB-C) Ports - use one of them to connect the dock to the iMac's Thunderbolt port
USB 3.2 (10Gb/s) Type-C - • use this port with a Type C - Type converter (????) to connect to one of my devices
5 x USB 3.2 (5Gb/s) Type-A - use this as a direct connect (no converter) to connect to my other 5 devices


Yes. The dual Thunderbolt ports are to support daisy-chaining of Thunderbolt devices. Some other docks such as the CalDigit one and the OWC 11-Port one have one upstream Thunderbolt link and several downstream ones, so that you can split the chain.


With the inexpensive hub (RSHTECH USB), how would I connect the Thunderbolt port of the iMac to the hub?
Is there a converter for this? The description talks about a laptop, not iMac. Does this also mean that I could connect all my 6 devices directly to the remaining 6 ports?


The pictures on the Amazon site show that the RSTECH hub has a USB-B Type 3.0 upstream socket on one end, next to the socket for the power adapter. The package comes with a "2 ft. long USB-C male to USB-B male 3.0" cable. You'd plug the USB-B Type 3.0 end of the cable into the hub, and the USB-C end of the cable into one of your iMac's two Thunderbolt ports.


The RSTECH hub has no idea what Thunderbolt is, or how to speak it. The "Thunderbolt / USB 4 ports" on your 24" M3 iMac are actually USB-C ports that support

  • DisplayPort
  • Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40 Gb/s)
  • USB 4 (up to 40 GB/s)
  • USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gb/s)


Apple emphasizes the high-end Thunderbolt capability, and the support for the newest version of USB (USB4). But when you plug in a device that only speaks USB protocol, your Mac will adapt, and will speak that protocol over the USB-C connector. That's what things like the RSTECH hub are relying upon. It is also why you could connect one of your USB-A devices directly to one of the iMac's Thunderbolt / USB4 ports with the aid of the Apple USB-C to USB adapter. That adapter also relies on the USB signal, not on the Thunderbolt one.


Would this one also do the job:

vantisan
USB Hub 3.0 Powered, 7 Ports USB Data Hub Splitter with One Smart
Charging Port and 5V/4A Powered Adapter and ON/Off Switches for MacBook,
Mac Pro/Mini, iMac, Surface Pro Laptop/PC

https://www.amazon.com/vantisan-Powered-Splitter-Charging-Switches/dp/B0B18H7J58/ref=sxin_14_sbv_search_btf?content-id=amzn1.sym.6ca944f8-539c-499e-a3a4-26a566d1de59%3Aamzn1.sym.6ca944f8-539c-499e-a3a4-26a566d1de59&crid=35MNN2LOCMNTJ&cv_ct_cx=hub%2Bfor%2B2023%2Bimac%2Bwith%2B6%2Busb%2B3%2Bports&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.EJVHjFv48z-W9CTZfQldNg.voAPDrToqjh8wU4wsuncDV8PJfLxVzly2v5nTMfsG8E&dib_tag=se&keywords=hub%2Bfor%2B2023%2Bimac%2Bwith%2B6%2Busb%2B3%2Bports&pd_rd_i=B0B18H7J58&pd_rd_r=bec7a0b1-ed90-4d7a-8512-b142d454ce08&pd_rd_w=aX2FM&pd_rd_wg=TftLa&pf_rd_p=6ca944f8-539c-499e-a3a4-26a566d1de59&pf_rd_r=6R13A3XQACQE1YZG8MZ8&qid=1705633072&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=hub%2Bfor%2B2023%2Bimac%2Bwith%2B6%2Busb%2B3%2Bports%2Caps%2C145&sr=1-1-5190daf0-67e3-427c-bea6-c72c1df98776&th=1


That one looks like it would do a similar job. It is a powered hub, with a USB 3.0 uplink to a computer, that offers seven downstream USB 3.0 ports, each with their own on/off switch. Even the price is similar.


With the Vantisan hub,

  • The upstream cable appears to be permanently attached.
  • That cable ends in a USB-A plug. You'd need to buy an adapter to plug it into your iMac – and you'd want to ensure that the adapter supported at least USB 3.0 speed. The Apple USB-C to USB adapter goes for $19; a similar AmazonBasics one goes for $9.


I just noticed another difference.


The Vantisan hub comes with a "5V/4A" adapter and the RSTECH one comes with a "5V/2A" one. USB 3.0 lets devices draw up to 900 mA (0.9 amps), so neither hub seems to come with an adapter that would allow use of seven power-hungry USB-A devices at the same time.


The Vantisan hub might let you power three or four drives at the same time, while when using the RSTECH hub, you might need to limit yourself to two drives, before you unplugged some, or switched some off.

Nov 30, 2023 4:22 PM in response to 12-ThreeFour

I don't believe that iMac can connect to a new Mac Mini as an external monitor. The iMac must have MacOS High Sierra or earlier, and the Mac Mini has to be 2019 or earlier and running MacOS Catalina or earlier. Kinda defeats the OP's purpose.


It's always good to weigh the different options, though:

  • Refurbished iMac (or Mac Mini)
  • Mac Mini plus external monitor
  • iMac -- Based on your current iMac, I'd spec it with 1TB internal storage and with 4 ports (entry level has but two). RAM...I do think 8GB might be fine for your typical use.


Hope this helps.

Dec 1, 2023 2:56 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

The main confusion has to do with these USB ports. To understand them, I looked up a table listing the literally hundreds of variations. According to that table, USB A is not the same as USB 3. However, on this forum, people seem to assume that USB A = USB 3 and USB C = USB 4 (or Thunderbird).  I have no idea if it matters if a port is USB 3 or USB 3.2.


Until USB-C came out, a lot of people equated USB 1, 2, and 3 with the USB-A connector. Even if they did not know that the connector was called a USB-A connector. They just thought of it as "USB."


There were actually a lot of other USB connectors even before USB-C came along.


https://www.anker.com/blogs/cables/how-to-identify-different-types-of-usb-cables-a-brief-guide

https://www.cablestogo.com/learning/connector-guides/usb


Two others in common use today are USB-B 2.0 (printers) and USB 3.0 Micro-B (portable USB 3.0 hard drives). You sometimes see USB 2.0 Micro-B connectors on dumb cell phones. The Mini connectors seem to have died and been forgotten.


--------------------


USB speed names are even more "interesting". USB 1 ran at speeds of up to 12 Mbps, so when USB 2 came out, promising speeds of up to 480 Mbps, that seemed like a huge improvement.


What do you think the term "USB 2 Full Speed" means? If you answered "up to 480 Mbps", you're not a vendor! "USB 2 Full Speed" was a name for the old, slow, USB 1 speed! You had to look for the label "USB 2 High Speed" to get the "up to 480 Mbps" speed.


With USB 3, the names multiplied like rabbits. But there is a pattern to the madness.


For a name of the form USB 3.whatever [Gen generation [x number_of_lanes]],

  • The generation tells you the speed per lane. Gen 1 = "up to 5 Gbps/lane". Gen 2 = "up to 10 Gbps/lane". When there is no generation, assume the worst.
  • If there is no number_of_lanes, assume that there is one.


So

  • USB 3.0
  • USB 3.1
  • USB 3.1 Gen 1
  • USB 3.2
  • USB 3.2 Gen 1
  • USB 3.2 Gen 1x1

are all names that vendors might use to describe the same "up to 5 Gbps" single-lane mode. USB 3.2 may sound like it would be faster than USB 3.0, but if there's an implicit "1x1" after it, it isn't.


And

  • USB 3.1 Gen 2
  • USB 3.2 Gen 2
  • USB 3.2 Gen 2x1

are all names that vendors might use for the same "up to 10 Gbps" single-lane mode.


For USB4, the USB Implementer's Forum decided to make things even more confusing. USB4 Gen 2 is not the same as USB 3.whatever Gen 2. Now it refers to an incompatible mode of operation!


This is a real "dog's breakfast" even for people like me who are accustomed to working with complex technical specifications. Unfortunately, while the industry made this bed, it's the customers who get to lie down in it …


Jan 21, 2024 7:57 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

Thanks a lot steve626 for taking the time on a weekend to offer your suggestions. The topics are more complicated than they sound and unfortunately the forum's rules do not allow for the details. Your family is lucky to have you help them with upgrades and issues that come up. I will somehow figure out what will work best for the immediate future and for the long run as this might be a my last computer.

Hi Suzy, I hear you. I also read your other longer post which I don't see anymore but I think I understand your situation.


Perhaps your best bet here is to find an Apple Authorized Service Provider (which is an independent service provider certified by Apple, but typically independent of Apple Stores) and basically pay them (if you can afford this, I don't think it will take a lot of hours) to set you up to move forward. If you decide to change to Windows, they can export your emails to a format that can be transferred to a Windows PC. And they can also go through your setup and resolve other issues so your migration goes well. If you decide to stay with a Mac platform, they can set you up with everything on your new Mac. Including the Migration of all your stuff to the new computer. They will stay with you until everything is the way you want it. They can handle all the adaptors, cables, external drives, docks/hubs etc. for you. They can set you up with backups both before and after your transition to a new computer.


By the way, my experience with Migration Assistant (also called Setup Assistant), which I have used more than two dozen times to move to new Macs for my work computers, for my personal computers, and for personal computers (Macs) of the other family members for whom I am the "IT guy." It's not 100% perfect but for me it has worked flawlessly for many years. You don't lose anything ... files, settings, browser bookmarks ... they are preserved and moved over from the old to the new computer. The Apple Service Provider can reinstall applications that require reinstallation (some will because your old Mac is so old). You can get this assistance at the Apple Store but I have seen very patient and attentive service provided by these independent shops that are Apple certified, especially for people who find it all confusing. You can find these Apple certified shops on the Apple web site.


Wishing you the best, however you decide.



Nov 30, 2023 10:16 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

Unfortunately, with Apple's yearly OS releases I am left behind, and my computer cannot be upgraded to Sonoma, I can no longer update it and benefit from security patches or support.


You can't upgrade a 2013 iMac to any version of macOS in the "most recent three" that get security patches. You could upgrade it to Catalina, though that would cause 32-bit applications to break.


If you upgraded macOS to Catalina, you could install the current version of Firefox.


Mozilla – Firefox for Desktop


If you stayed on Mojave, you could install Firefox 115 ESR. It is no longer getting new features, but Mozilla says that they will provide "critical security updates" through September 2024.


Mozilla Support – Firefox users on macOS 10.12, 10.13 and 10.14 moving to Extended Support Release


Dec 1, 2023 3:45 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

@Servant of Cats, I'd appreciate your clarification with the specs of the Mac mini Mac mini - Technical Specifications - Apple• . They show:

Two Thunderbolt 4 ports (M2) or four Thunderbolt 4 ports (M2 Pro) with support for:

DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)
• Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately)
• Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s)
• HDMI port
• Gigabit Ethernet port (configurable to 10Gb Ethernet)
• 3.5 mm headphone jack
Isn't USB 3 the same as USB-A?


USB-A is a connector type that can support versions of USB ranging from USB 1.0 through USB 3.1 Gen 2. While many people take "USB 3" (the protocol) to be the same as "USB-A" (the connector), USB 3 can run over several connector types, including USB-A (3.0 version), USB 3.0 Micro-B, and USB-C.


So as with dictionary words that have several meanings, "USB 3" could be taken to refer to USB-A (USB 3) (i.e., the connector + protocol package); or just to the protocol, independent of the connector.


In terms of directly connecting traditional USB peripherals,

  • The USB-A ports support USB at speeds of "up to 5 Gbps" (USB 3.0 speed)
  • The USB-C ports support USB at speeds of "up to 10 Gbps" (USB 3.1 Gen 2 speed)
  • As long as you are talking about USB protocol at these speeds, it is easy to convert from USB-C to USB-A (or vice versa) with appropriate adapters.


If so, why are they mentioned separately?


You're getting two USB 3.0 ports that have the traditional USB-A connector – the type that you're using now.


That's in addition to the two or four USB4 ports that have a USB-C connector and that can support USB at a higher (USB 3.1 Gen 2) speed. The specifications are separate because they pertain to different ports.


Does a user have to be concerned about compatibility between USB 3, USB 3.1 Gen 2 and USB 3.2?


They should be compatible. When you say "USB 3" by itself, that means "up to 5 Gbps" – and when a vendor says "USB 3.2" by itself, that probably also means "up to 5 Gbps."


"USB 3.1 Gen 2" means "up to 10 Gbps". If you plug a USB 3 device into a USB 3.1 Gen 2 port, things will work. They'll work at "up to 5 Gbps" – the port will adjust its speed to be compatible with the slower device.


There is the A-vs-C connector difference, but there are many ways of overcoming that.


Thunderbolt 4 is mentioned separately from USB 4. I thought that they are the same... Aren't they? If I was confused about the USB until now, I am much more confused now.


USB4 is the latest version of USB. A USB4 host port must use the USB-C connector.


Thunderbolt is one of the protocols that can run on a USB-C connector. I believe the USB4 standard refers to – and incorporates technology from – Thunderbolt 3. Thunderbolt 4 is a refined version of Thunderbolt 3. One of the things that a vendor must do to gain Thunderbolt 4 certification is to support attaching two or more displays using USB-C (DisplayPort) or USB-C (Thunderbolt).


The M1 Mac mini has USB4 (Thunderbolt 3) ports. The M2 Mac mini has USB4 (Thunderbolt 4) ports. I believe this reflects the fact that on a M1 Mac mini, only one of your two monitors can be a USB-C or Thunderbolt one.


Nov 30, 2023 3:02 PM in response to Suzy2014

You can buy a Mac Mini and connect it to your iMac. A Mac Mini with 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB of storage is $1000. You will save $200 if you get 8 GB of RAM instaid. There is also an ethernet option which costs $100 more. You get the latest macOS, a better processor, Apple Silicon which provides more benefits, less unnecessary storage, you keep your iMac, and this alternative is cheaper. You could use your port existing extensions. Here is a link to ordering a Mac Mini and you can look over the configurations: Mac mini - Apple


Nov 30, 2023 9:23 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

As far as external devices go, I have a Brother printer, an Epson scanner, two external drives (one for Timemachine backups and one for CarbonCopyClone backups), a APC UPS. All of them use USB ports. A USB port extender with 4 ports supports my wired keyboard and wired mouse (which I would like to reuse and the UPS.


Those are USB-A (USB 3.0) ports.


All M2 Mac minis and M2 Pro Mac minis have:

  • Two USB-A (USB 3.0) ports – like the ones on your current Mac
  • Two (M2) or four (M2 Pro) multi-purpose USB-C (USB 3.1 Gen 2, DIsplayPort, Thunderbolt) ports
  • A HDMI port


To connect a display, you'll need to use the HDMI port, or one of the multi-purpose USB-C ports. Other than that, it's easy to convert back and forth between USB-A (USB) and USB-C (USB). If you already have a powered USB-A hub, you might not need to plug an adapter into a USB-C port, but know that the option is there.

Nov 30, 2023 9:44 PM in response to Suzy2014

I assume (but I would have to double check) that Apple staff would transfer what I have on my current computer to the refurbished one. That's quite important for me.

If you order an iMac online for pickup in an Apple Store and bring your old Mac, they can transfer data.



As far as external devices go, I have a Brother printer, an Epson scanner, two external drives (one for Timemachine backups and one for CarbonCopyClone backups), a APC UPS. All of them use USB ports. A USB port extender with 4 ports supports my wired keyboard and wired mouse (which I would like to reuse and the UPS.

It sounds like you may be a perfect candidate for a CalDigit Element Hub. This dock/hub has 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports and 4 USB-A 3.2 ports. This dock only uses 1-port on your iMac, so any additional legacy connections can be made with a simple USB-C to USB Adapter - Apple. iMac also includes a new wireless Magic Mouse and Magic Keyboard (with Touch ID) that are a joy to use.



Does this model support Sonoma? I just noticed that it might come with Big Sur.

You bet! It was released running macOS Big Sur in 2021, but is compatible with macOS Sonoma.



All of these ports are most likely USB3 ports.

Two are Thunderbolt and USB compatible, the other two just support USB.



The external drives are older than 4 years.

Using new external backup disks may be wise. The LaCie 2TB Rugged USB-C Portable Hard Drive - Apple is a great external disk, and one that would be great for backups. However, the LaCie only includes a USB-C cable. If you'd prefer one with both the new USB-C and legacy connection, the SanDisk Professional 2TB G-Drive ArmorATD™ - Apple may be the better choice.



-Jack

Nov 30, 2023 9:48 PM in response to Suzy2014

Suzy2014 wrote:

As far as external devices go, I have a Brother printer, an Epson scanner, two external drives (one for Timemachine backups and one for CarbonCopyClone backups), a APC UPS. All of them use USB ports. A USB port extender with 4 ports supports my wired keyboard and wired mouse (which I would like to reuse and the UPS.


I don't think you need to worry about connecting USB-A devices to a new Mac that has only USB-C ports … or a mixture of USB-C and USB-A ports.


I'd worry more about whether the Brother printer, Epson scanner, and APC UPS are compatible with new versions of macOS. Brother and Epson may – or may not – have provided updated drivers. (Printer manufacturers have a bad habit of failing to provide updated drivers, which may leave you with perfectly good equipment, and nowhere to go).


I would suggest checking their support sites to see if they have been keeping drivers up to date before you make the leap to a new Mac. Or if they support AirPrint (which lets devices work with Macs without the need to install separate drivers).


About AirPrint - Apple Support


For rescuing old scanners, another possibility is a third-party product called VueScan.


VueScan – Hamrick Software


When my old Mac died, and I went from High Sierra (10.13) to Ventura (13.1) in a single jump, I found that there were no updated Canon drivers for the all-in-one printer that had served me so well. Fortunately, it supported AirPrint – so I got printing going that way. To get scanning going again, I bought VueScan (Standard Edition).


Dec 1, 2023 2:13 PM in response to Servant of Cats

@Servant of Cats, I'd appreciate your clarification with the specs of the Mac mini Mac mini - Technical Specifications - Apple. They show:


Two Thunderbolt 4 ports (M2) or four Thunderbolt 4 ports (M2 Pro) with support for:


  • DisplayPort
  • Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
  • USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
  • USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)
  • Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately)
  • Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s)
  • HDMI port
  • Gigabit Ethernet port (configurable to 10Gb Ethernet)
  • 3.5 mm headphone jack


Isn't USB 3 the same as USB-A? If so, why are they mentioned separately? Does a user have to be concerned about compatibility between USB 3, USB 3.1 Gen 2 and USB 3.2?

Thunderbolt 4 is mentioned separately from USB 4. I thought that they are the same... Aren't they? If I was confused about the USB until now, I am much more confused now.


Regardless, as I am trying to figure out what I would need with Mac mini and a monitor like I have now, it seems that I would have to buy the following:


  • Mac mini w. 512 GB $800
  • hub $200
  • basic 24" max monitor $200 (???)
  • 2 external drives $220

--------------------------------------

Total $1,420


Unless I missed something, this would save me about $500. Am I missing something?

What would be the drawback of having this configuration vs. a new imac?


At this point I am concerned about having problems due to 3rd party software that I use (just a very few) and the latest version of the OS. I am wondering if it would make sense to wait a few more months to give a chance to Apple to fix bugs and 3rd party vendors to catch up. These yearly releases are killers for most (obviously except for Apple).


I did learn a lot from what you and Jack-19 generously shared. I very much appreciate your time.


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