iPhone Payment and Shipping PAYMENT METHOD not using Apple Pay

Hi Jeff

Not sure if you're still following this discussion. I've finally got to the bottom of the issue.

If you remember, I had Apple Pay as my top Payment method, with 3 cards within Apple Pay. So, Apple would first try Apple Pay for a subscription (say) Apple TV and then the default card within Apple Pay.

If that default card within Apple Pay failed, I thought/expected Apple to then try each successive card within Apple Pay. And then, if all cards within Apple Pay failed, return to the next card under Payment methods.

However, Apple have now confirmed that they only try the default card within Apple Pay. If that fails, they do not go on to try other cards within Apple Pay - but would return to the next card under Payment methods.

This is the exact behaviour I see.

Hi Jeff - thanks for your reply.

The article you mention relates to Payment Methods NOT Apple Pay - they are not one in the same thing, they are different and function differently.

This was my initial confusion - I thought they did function the same - hence my question.

Perhaps the following 2 scenarios might highlight the difference.

Scenario 1.

Let's say they are 3 cards - A, B, C - under Payment Methods. When Apple charge a subscription, then will first try A. If that fails, Apple try B. If that fails, Apple try C.

Scenario 2.

Let's say there is ONLY one Payment Method - Apple Pay. There are no other Payment Methods - no other cards within the Payment Method list. Now let's say there are 3 cards within Apple Pay/Wallet in order - X, Y, Z, with X the default card. When Apple Charge a subscription, Apple will try Apple Pay (remember, it's the ONLY Payment Method) and will try the default card X. If that fails, it's the end of the road - Apple do not go on to try Y and/or Z.

This was my initial confusion - I thought Apple did go on to try Y and Z, in the same way that it goes on to try B and C under Payment Methods.

In a Genius Bar meeting today, Apple confirmed this. That is, if Apple Pay is a Paymemt Method, then if Apple use it, it will attempt to charge the default card (card X above) ONLY - and, if X fails, they do not go on to try Y and Z.

Hope that clarifies.

Thanks Jeff for your continued help - very much appreciated.

Tapping Edit (upper right) allows me to remove any payment method including Apple Pay, but only allows me to reposition cards - Apple Pay cannot be moved from the top of the list and placed further down:

This makes sense to me. If Apple Pay is added to the payment methods list, then I am sure Apple would want the user to use it first before an independent card.

*NB: I did say in my original post that Apple Pay was there by default. Clearly, this was wrong🙏. I must have added it many iterations of iPhone model previously (probably iPhone 8 or 10), completely forgot I did, and it was just copied across each time I transferred from my old model to my new one.

The text below the payment methods is as follows:

The second paragraph confirms that, in my setup, Apple Pay should have been the first payment method used. Following the Learn More link, only displays instructions on how to add a payment method.

The link in the first paragraph - "which payment methods are available" - is the more interesting of the 2 and displays details of what payment methods are available for each region [NB. it is not a web page so cannot link, and the text is far too long to copy here] . My region is UK for which the payment methods are:

So :

1. 1. Apple Pay is an available payment method for Payment and Shipping (ie. subscriptions) [in my region].
   2. Since it is at the top of the payment methods list, Apple Pay should have been the first payment method Apple tried to use.

However, that did not happen for me a couple of days ago.

I will go back to Apple on this and update here with their response.

Thanks very much Jeff for your reply - much appreciated.

With respect, I don't think there is any confusion here regarding payment method or card being used. They are one and the same thing, which I, and the support person, understand.

And the support person fully understood the situation. Given he confirmed that "Apple Pay" was the first and default payment method in the "PAYMENT METHODS" list and the first to be tried, I asked what is the point of having payment methods (aka cards) below "Apple Pay" if there are cards within "Apple Pay".

He confirmed that one should always have a payment method (aka card) below "Apple Pay" in the "PAYMENT METHODS" list for:

1. 1. In case "Apple Pay" should fail
   2. When there are no cards, or no active cards, within "Apple Pay"

The Apple support person was definitive - Apple Pay is a Payment Method and the first to be tried. Only if Apple Pay fails do Apple go on to try Card A, then B, then C, then D......

However, that is not what happened. What happened is exactly as you explained...

Apple ignored Apple Pay as the first and default entry in the "PAYMENT METHODS" list, and first tried Card A, then B, and was then successful with Card C.

The confusion arises therefore, in that "Apple Pay" is the first and therefore default payment method in the "PAYMENT METHODS" list:

PAYMENT METHODS

Apple Pay

Card A

Card B

Card C

Card D

The text under the list states. "Your default payment method is at the top." Well, unless I'm missing something, "Apple Pay" is very much at the top of the "PAYMENT METHODS" list.

So, the fundamental question still remains - if "Apple Pay" is not a payment method, why is it included in the "PAYMENT METHODS" list ?? And, not just included, but at the top of the list making it the default payment method ??

It's a screenshot from my iPhone 15 Pro Max. As I gave in the original post:

Settings > Apple ID [Name] > Payment & Shipping > Payment and Shipping

In the previous post I annotated the screenshot with Card A, etc so I could easily refer the the various cards.

Here is the same screenshot without annotation:

So, as you can clearly see, Apple Pay is the first entry in the PAYMENT METHODS list for Payment and Shipping - and always has been as far back as I can remember.