Stand Hours Algorithm Needs Changing

I have seem many posts about the fact that Apple Watch does not correctly record time standing and moving around. I have the same issue myself, and it's infuriating. I can spend an hour in my home workshop walking around, using machines and hand tools, climbing ladders, and heaving baulks of wood around. Result: NOTHING! Today, I spent an hour painting my shed, with a lot of moving around, bending, standing and painting. Again, Nothing recorded for stand hours. However, I can stand around and swing my arms for a minute and hooray, I have a stand hour credit!


This is a joke. I have seen the advice from Apple and other Mac resources - to get a stand credit, be sure to swing your arms. It doesn't matter how active or not you have been, the only thing that counts is swinging your arms. Come on Apple, you can do better than this. You must have seen thousands of complaints about this. Please drop the very limiting arm-swinging requirement and measure what really counts - actually moving around. This surely must be easy. The watch has accelerometers that can measure lateral motion. Just use this instead and forget the arm swinging, PLEASE. This will address everyone's frustration with stand hours credits.


Regards,


Brian Smale

Apple Watch SE

Posted on Jul 18, 2024 1:51 PM

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Posted on Jul 18, 2024 2:06 PM

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10 replies

Jul 19, 2024 3:43 AM in response to javaliga

Hello Javaliga,


Thanks for your reply. I have indeed sent this to Apple Product Feedback as well as posting it here. This arm-swinging shortcoming of the standing hours recorder has been around for at least nine years and I notice that there have been thousands of posts about it. I am amazed that Apple has not already fixed it, as the cure is so simple and obvious; stop measuring arm-swinging, just measure actual moving around.


By posting it here I am hoping that other Apple Watch users will also write to the Apple developers to ask them to fix this problem. Maybe if enough people write in, Apple will notice and do the necessary. It's really stupid that one can stand still and swing one's arms for a mniute and get a stand credit, while genuinely moving around for an hour often counts for nothing.


Regards,


Brian

Jul 20, 2024 6:15 AM in response to Brian Smale

I have been writing software for decades, but I started with a BSEE degree, because it was before a Computer Science degree was common in most universities.


And yes, having an engineering degree, as well as being a software developer, means I sometimes can be anal about details.


But, trying to capture the real world (Standing each hour), while staying inside a very constrained power budget, with minimal sensors, makes for a very complex algorithm, that is going to have holes in it you could drive a semi-truck through.


Sitting at my desk typing generates tiny accelerations. How do you distinguish those from walking around, or standing? You cannot be running the GPS radio all the time, because it blows your power budget, and indoors it is not sufficiently accurate. The altimeter is not accurate enough to register a move from sitting to standing, so the Apple Watch cannot really use that. And even if you invent a better battery, you are still limited on power, because most of the power used results in waste heat, so spending power faster, creates more heat, and the Apple Watch is sitting on skin, that does not like 3rd degree burns.


As it is, choosing to look for arm motion, that might indicate walking, is a conceptually simple algorithm, and if detected, has a reasonable chance of being right (unless you knit, then it is totally wrong, but you get huge daily step counts 😁).


All I can suggest is that since you are motivated, and you are an engineer, create and test the algorithm that works in most real world situations for lots of people, does not drain the battery, does not cause skin burns from excess heat, then give it to Apple. Motivated and inventive people are why there as so many apps for smartphones. This is an opportunity to fill a gap. Be that person.

Jul 19, 2024 4:14 PM in response to Brian Smale

Another option is to do a one minute Workout. The Workout is Other > Open. Let it run for just 1 minute and stop the workout. Making the perfect algorithm is impossible, no two people are alike physiologically, so one algorithm won’t work for everyone.


At the end of the day, it’s just a stand goal. If you know you completed the goal, isn’t that enough? 😀😀😀

Jul 20, 2024 2:09 AM in response to BobHarris

Hi All,


Addressing the various points you've made, I agree that having the correct record of stand hours is not the be all and end all, as you know if you've been moving around, but as an engineer, I believe that if you design something to achieve a goal, your creation should meet that goal. Apple's stand and moving arounf recorder clearly fails in its objective, so it should be fixed.


Jeff suggests doing a one-minute workout, but honestly, life is too short to spend time doing this. If Apple's aim is to encourage us to get off our chairs and move around, there are many ways of doing that by doing useful things around the home, and the app should be able to record that. Cheating by standing still and swinging one's arms is not a good solution, by the way.


Regarding astronomical motion, I'm sure the watch would not be able to detect that, as on the scale of the watch, such motion is effectively in straight lines with no acceleration. Also, walking steadily at a consrtant speed should certainly be detected, both via the GPS function and the fact that walking is full of small accelerations due up-and-down bobbing and back-and-forth motions wirh every step. Since we are mostly concerned with indoor motion anyway, there will be numerous accelerations and decelerations every time we meet a wall and change direction. I am convinced that with a bit of thought, standing up and moving around recording could be achieved without the need for arm-swinging. Failure to swing oné arms absolutely should not negate what is otherwise genuine moving around.


Regards,


Brian

Jul 19, 2024 1:25 PM in response to Brian Smale

How do you suggest Apple Watch measure "Moving Around"? If you are not going to use the accelerometer, then that leaves GPS.


https://mapscaping.com/how-accurate-is-gps/#:~:text=With%20a%20clear%20view%20of,(33%20to%2066%20feet).

With a clear view of the sky, most consumer-grade GPS receivers can determine your position with an accuracy of about 3 to 5 meters (10 to 16 feet). In real-world conditions, such as when there are obstacles like buildings or trees, the accuracy can decrease to about 10 to 20 meters (33 to 66 feet).Sep 16, 2023


So if you are in your home, or say you are a chef in a kitchen, all your moving around might report the exact same 10-20 meters, so no movement at all.


Sure it would work kind-of-OK on long walks in a mostly straight line, although then you need to know the stride of the user so you know if you should count 1, 2 or 3 steps per meter.


I am not saying it cannot be solved, but I think your assumptions are a bit simplistic, and the algorithm is going to be rather complex.


Also running the GPS 24/7 will chew up a lot of battery, which is why it is used infrequently, unless you are running one of the exercise modes (walking, running, bicycling, etc...).

Jul 19, 2024 4:17 PM in response to Brian Smale

Also does an accelerometer measure lateral motion, or does it measure accelerometer and deceleration?


Going a stead speed, whether it is 1 meter/second, or 26 meter/second should not apply any force to an accelerometer,


After all the Earth is rotating at 1600 KM/hour, and the Earth is orbiting around the sun at 107,000 KM/hour, and the sun is orbiting around the galaxy at 828,000 KM/hour. All of that is lateral motion, and I do not think the accelerator in the Apple Watch is compensating for all that steady state motion depending on which direction you are facing.


Then again, I have never placed with a solid state accelerometer, so I'm not sure what the outputs are.

Jul 20, 2024 12:25 PM in response to BobHarris

I don't think we're achieving anything useful here at this point, so I won't be saying any more. I will just end by noting that the chip in the Watch is vastly more powerful that mainframe computers of just a few years ago, so I think it is eminently capable of doing the necessary calculations on a few inputs per second from a set of accelerometers to work out that the wearer has got up and is moving around. It just requires an Apple engineer to scratch his/her head for a little while. At my advanced age I'm not going to learn Apple software in order to do their job for them.


Regards,


Brian

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Stand Hours Algorithm Needs Changing

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