Airplay on old Apple TV

Actually the stuff I read was really confusing. One link (by the makers of the app) had a link to do it automatically.. for $40! Then there was this free thingy that is so poorly explained.

It's called "atvusb-creator-1.0.b13". But if you're ignorant of what SSH or SHH or whatever that is.. and you've never used terminal or thought in a "terminal like way" (like u cant use " ) you just get stuck and frustrated. Who thought that buying an app i making something work result in such a mess and bad feelings.

forgive me....but I have no idea, nor do 99% of people wanting to accomplish this what a SSH Client is?

I don't use Terminal, but tried. Everything I did it just stuck or fed back some esoteric meaningness (to me) babble.

So I got stuck right away. I read and re-read and re-read the "getting started": makes no sense to me. I think there are a lot of assumptions by the writers.

The obviousness of not including quotations is not obvious to 95% of Mac users... that's why we bought Macs, not PC's?

What I'm trying to do now is somehow download and install some pluggin that the company said I had to install before I could use the app.

WHen I put the first line in Terminal.. and that was scary... look what comes up! This is crazy....


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ WARNING: POSSIBLE DNS SPOOFING DETECTED! @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
The RSA host key for appletv.local has changed,
and the key for the corresponding IP address fe80::223:12ff:fe09:fc65%en1
is unknown. This could either mean that
DNS SPOOFING is happening or the IP address for the host
and its host key have changed at the same time.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED! @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!
Someone could be eavesdropping on you right now (man-in-the-middle attack)!
It is also possible that the RSA host key has just been changed.
The fingerprint for the RSA key sent by the remote host is
63:25:7c:02:56:4d:d0:c1:99:96:62:9d:33:28:0b:5d.
Please contact your system administrator.
Add correct host key in /Users/mikesinreach/.ssh/known_hosts to get rid of this message.
Offending key in /Users/mikesinreach/.ssh/known_hosts:1
RSA host key for appletv.local has changed and you have requested strict checking.

wow this IS scary. I no longer have permission to talk in this forum!

I bought the app from the iTunes Store (Remote HD) I then followed the directions from the developer on how to how to get it to work? I am hacking something?

*** moderator are you crazy? Better go to your own store and see what you sell.

And what you did was rude.

I don't think the bug theory has been laid to rest. I still think it is a bug, just one that apple can't be bothered to fix because it's easier to just change the docs and tell people to buy a new appletv.

It's been laid to rest in that Apple no longer lists the ATV1 as an AirPlay compatible device in its documentation.

I would also argue that the quoted webpage "clearly states that AirPlay is a component of iOS" AirPlay is just a protocol like AirTunes....

It's obvious from the technical documentation that AirPlay is built into iOS 4.2, and client devices are listed as needing appropriate software/firmware updates for compatibility, of which none apparently exists for the ATV1. AirPlay is not a protocol however, it is merely streaming software marketed under the name AirPlay. It likely uses the mp3/mp4 protocols (or the iTunes variations of them) for the stream format.

Is there anything in my earlier post you disagreed with?

Philosophical arguments don't generally hold up very well when applied to the underlying technical issues and business considerations involved in problems like this.

I lean toward the bug theory. The original Airplay support page was not at all ambiguous about Airplay working for audio only on ATV1. There's no way it could have been a typo. I think Apple expected to get audio streaming to ATV1 "for free" for the same reasons others have articulated here, but never actually tested it. When it turned out not to work, Apple could not financially justify diverting resources to adding a new, free feature to a discontinued product when there are still issues to be resolved for ATV2. So they just edited the support document to correspond to reality.

* moderator are you crazy? Better go to your own store and see what you sell.

Discussions of unsupported hacks have never been allowed here. I'm a bit surprised that the app in question ever made it through the app store approval process considering that it lists an "unlocked" ATV1 as one of the technical requirements. Don't be surprised if it ultimately disappears from the app store as mysteriously as your comments disappeared from this thread.

WHen I put the first line in Terminal.. and that was scary... look what comes up! This is crazy....

That is a normal part of the SSH security scheme. The first time you connect to a remote host via SSH its host name and IP address are added to the known_hosts file in the .ssh folder in your user account's home directory. That warning message is generated if the host name and IP address don't match on a subsequent connection, which will happen if the remote host is using a dynamic IP address (as with DHCP). Delete the entry for that host in the known_hosts file (or delete the known_hosts file altogether) and you should be able to connect.

capaho:
I can't see how AirPlay is not a protocol, esp as it's being reverse engineered. it's a standard that multiple devices use to stream audio/video between them. yes, there is obviously software of the same name at either end, but the way in which the data is streamed over the network is proprietary, though it will use some standard components in it. it we know it uses apple-lossless for the audio part (from airtunes) and I believe it uses a version of RTSP for control and timing.

incidentally of course, the Airport Express never did need a firmware update to support audio only streaming from an iPhone.

and I didn't think that in my previous post I had made many philosophical arguments. I thought I had mostly stuck to facts with a little bit of guesswork right at the end.

PS. I also had a post removed as it was apparently talking about iPhone hacking (?!)

I can't see how AirPlay is not a protocol....

That is precisely the problem. AirPlay is a software application, it uses various protocols to perform various tasks, but the application itself is not a protocol. HTTP and IMAP that you mentioned previously are protocols for sending and receiving hypertext data and mail data respectively across networks, and they are independent of any specific applications, although many applications use them. Understand the difference?

Come on Guys, stop looking for excuses for Aplle. David has nailed it completly. I have my 1gen ATV hacked for a long while and have bought the HDRemote app. This can stream video with sound to the 1gen ATV. An update will be available to stream audio only.
The key point is that the even older AirPort expresses can receive audio streams via AirPlay without any software update whatsoever. Why does this still work? Because Apple doesn't have a replacement for this device as they have for there ATV. Apple doesn't need to change anything on the 1gen ATV to get audio Airplay streaming (I even don't need the extra capability of streaming video). If something needs to be fixed then this should be done at the IOS part not at the ATV part since audio streaming still works perfectly from within iTunes.

Greetz
Peter

David Haworth wrote:
Capaho, let me explain how I feel it all works. tell me if you disagree with anything.

Apple originally created an audio only streaming protocol called Airtunes. This was created for the Apple Airport Express with it's audio out port so that iTunes could stream audio to a hifi unit or somesuch. This did not require Homesharing or anything like that. I think it simply appeared as a set of "iTunes Speakers" in the drop-down menu on the bottom right of iTunes. Itunes basically converted whatever your audio was to Apple Lossless and streamed that to the Airport Express which send it out of it's audio connection.

Apple later provided a software upgrade to the AppleTV (the only one then available, but what we now call Gen1) to provide compatibility with AirTunes. ie so you could stream from iTunes to either the Airport Extreme or the AppleTV. This works in the same way as the Airport Express and indeed, my is configured with no access control so anyone on my network can stream to it with no authentication.

This all worked fine and people were happy.

A few years later, Steve announces iOS4 and all the great stuff that came with it, including airplay. He stated that this would enable audio and video streaming from an iDevice to an AppleTV. At the time, there only was one and no-one knew about the ATV2 thus many of us thought it would work with our original ATV's.

Apple then released the ATV2 and it was later determined that full-on audio and video Airplay would only work with the ATV2. There was some documentation that audio-only would work with the ATV1 but this was later changed.

I think all the above is roughly correct, though I might be wrong on which iOS version Airplay was announced for. Do we agree with the above?

I think that AirPlay is merely an extension to the older AirTunes protocol to include video, but actually whether it is or is not is irrelevant.

We know for a fact that an iPhone can stream audio and video to an AppleTV2. this is not under debate.

We know for a fact that an iPhone can stream audio only to an Airport Express. I do not believe this to be under debate.

The Airport Express did not require any firmware update to support AirPlay. Thus it seems to me that the iPhone absolutely must support AirTunes. Do we agree on this? If it did not support AirTunes then it could not recognise and stream audio to an Airport Express.

It may be that the iPhone recognises the capabilities of the Airport Express and sends it the audio in the older AirTunes protocol, or that AirPlay has backwards compatibility with an older version of the protocol. Whatever, it doesn't matter. the point is that the iPhone must support it for an Airport Express to be a valid sink for audio streaming.

What then is the difference with the AppleTV's version of AirTunes. Why not support it on the 1st Gen ATV? I don't buy this iOS vs OSX business because network protocols are explicitly designed to avoid this very issue.

The fact is that the iPhone supports AirTunes as well as AirPlay but I believe it explicitly decides not to list ATVGen1's as compatible AirPlay sink's for audio.

I don't expect them to update the 1st Gen ATV to full video sharing AirPlay (though I do think the box is perfectly capable of it). but I do resent the audio only functionality not working as this seems to be an intentional decision to not support it.

My personal suspicion is that it was originally intended to stream audio to the ATVGen1 but that there was some minor bug that prevented it from working properly. I suspect Apple could easily have fixed the bug but that they deemed it was not in their interests to expend any time at all doing so, so added a quick bit of code to delete ATVGen1's from the AirPlay list. I think they forgot the support document listing the ATVGen1 as being supported and then went and edited it later when people kicked up a fuss.

So, do you disagree with anything I've said above. have I mis-stated anything or said anything factually incorrect? Do you think I've made any incorrect assumptions or leaps of faith? I'm asking honestly as we seem to be at complete cross purposes here. You think I'm insane for expecting this to work, and I think you're insane for thinking it's an acceptable situation.

Where have I gone wrong? by the logic I have stated above, I can't see any real, compelling reason why iOS could not stream to an AppleTV Gen 1 apart form the fact that they'd rather we bought an ATV2

David

Message was edited by: AntwerPeter

Message was edited by: AntwerPeter

AntwerPeter, you comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... did you read what you wrote before you pressed send?

you have a hack that works by adding code to the appleTV, with absolutely no changes whatsoever to the iOS device.. and then you say this..

+"Apple doesn't need to change anything on the 1gen ATV to get audio Airplay streaming ... If something needs to be fixed then this should be done at the IOS part not at the ATV part since audio streaming still works perfectly from within iTunes."+

the fact that the hack works by adding code to the appleTV with no change whatsoever to the iOS device proves quite unequivocally that changes are necessary to the appleTV to get this work.. think about it for even 5 seconds and i'm sure you'll figure it out..

as someone else said.. who would spend $50-60 for this hack when the new appleTV with airPlay + Netflix + $.99 rentals etc cost only $99? does that make sense?? not to me..

tmartine wrote:

the fact that the hack works by adding code to the appleTV with no change whatsoever to the iOS device proves quite unequivocally that changes are necessary to the appleTV to get this work.. think about it for even 5 seconds and i'm sure you'll figure it out..

Not necessarily. A bug in the interaction between two devices can sometimes be fixed on either end, by fixing the side with the bug, or by adding a work-around to the other side.

as someone else said.. who would spend $50-60 for this hack when the new appleTV with airPlay + Netflix + $.99 rentals etc cost only $99? does that make sense?? not to me..

Yes, this seems very strange. Frankly, $99 seems a pretty reasonable price even if you think of it as an upgrade to the original model, considering what is added. But some people seem to be fixated on getting something from Apple for free, and are so burned that it hasn't happened (at least, not yet; it's always possible that Apple will get around to it in the future, once major issues with the new model are resolved), that they're spend $50 for an awkward kluge.

fair enough, i can see that... but it also doesn't prove the reverse either..

but i would think that if it was Apple straight up, just arbitrarily disabling appleTV 1 from receiving AirPlay.. i would think that would have come out when the hack was developed. e.g. if the hack was to just simply get the appleTV 1 to identify itself as an apple TV 2.. surely someone would have reported that...

It is free if you use your own flash USB stick. The paid version is for a memory stick with software already on it, mailed to you. I have not tried it yet but from what I understand from a couple of places, the app may not even be necessary to stream Airplay from iOS.