Netflix Problems

Bobbotov wrote:> The problem is with AppleTV.

For the love of Mike...

Look, I have lost track of the number of times it has been posted in this thread, but it appears people either are not reading or not paying attention. *This is NOT a problem with the AppleTV*. It is an account-specific issue with Netflix. If it were a problem with the AppleTV we all (or nearly all) would be experiencing it in the same measure. We are not, so it simply cannot be an Apple or AppleTV problem.

Backing that up is the simple fact Netflix admitted it was a problem on their end of the connection, and that was borne out by the fact I exercised patience and Netflix on my AppleTV started working without me doing anything to it what-so-ever.

So please do not post it is an Apple or AppleTV problem, because the evidence just isn't there to support that conclusion.

I had the same problem with my AppleTv and Netflix, here is a proven and easy solution to this bug. If Netflix is having problems streaming the content and you receive either these two messages "Netflix is not available at the moment try again later" or another message that ends with this "(112)" then here is the solution. Login as normal then attempt to view any content once the error comes on, then with the Tv turned on disconnect your AppleTv from the powersource, ex:from the back of the device or from the power outlet. Leave disconnected for about 20 seconds then re-connect. You should see the Apple logo come on your Tv screen and the AppleTv itself will be blinking the bright white light from the remote receiver which is in front of the AppleTv. (not the Remote). Once the main Menu comes back up, you might or might not be prompt to Log-in to your Netflix account. Once your in the content should stream.

So how do you explain the fact that the problem was resolved the first time when I updated AppleTV and the second time when I rebooted AppleTV? I never did anything on the Netflix side.

I have had Netflix for over two years and have never had an outage when using my PC to stream from any computer on my network. However, three days after installing AppleTV I have a problem. I am not knocking AppleTV for any other reason that what I experienced. Like I said, when it works it is excellent. So prove to me incontrovertibly that it is a Netflix problem.

Bobbotov wrote:
So how do you explain the fact that the problem was resolved the first time when I updated AppleTV and the second time when I rebooted AppleTV?

Coincidence. You cannot claim a 'fix' because the fixes listed in this discussion did not universally work. As I stated, they did not universally work because there was not a problem with the AppleTV itself. Unfortunately, nobody practiced anything resembling a scientific method to be able to prove conclusively what a 'fix' was. I don't claim that some of the AppleTV's couldn't have been defective, but there was far too much noise to signal to be able to tell who had a legitimate hardware problem and who was a Netflix account problem.

As far as proof goes, there is this : http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=12452725#12452725

And I am not alone in posting this information. I have spoken to both Apple and Netflix tech support at length, and Netflix tech support admitted it was an account-based problem on their end of things. And there is also the fact that I didn't change a single setting on my AppleTV and it started working, which is in line with the information I received from Netflix.

This is not directed specifically at you, and shouldn't be taken as if it were. The people who do post 'fixes' on these forums should only do so if :

They have the patience for the scientific method.

They change only one thing at a time, and record the result.

Track the effects of each and every change made.

Only after all potential changes have been exhausted should the analysis begin.

Post only after you have solid proof what you say is true.

The second someone says 'that didn't work for me' means either you got it wrong, or you made the wrong assumption about what was the cause. It also sends people off on wild goose chases seeking fixes which do not exist when one jumps from change to conclusion. Please don't mistake this for a rebuff saying people shouldn't post, as that is not my intent. What I am saying is if people want to truly be helpful they should be far more disciplined about the methods they use to reach conclusions, and really should take a deep breath or three before posting any 'fix'.

Buster Blocker, you nailed it. A "fix" that involves unplugging-plugging in the device along with some weird combination of other events is usually no more than an actual representation of the effects of randomness at work.

I too was having the same issues with specific titles that would play for 2-5 seconds, then kick me back to the movie menu. I too spoke with Apple, Netflix, and Cox. Apple directed me to call Netflix, Netflix acknowledged the issue but didn't suggest any solution. Cox suggested a faster internet service. I ignored this last recommendation.

The issue only happened on the TV, but not for every title. Resets, software updates, waiting for lunar alignment...none of that worked. One by one, I upgraded my old equipment: replaced an older Linksys router with a new Airport Express, replaced a 5yr-old cable modem with a new Motorola modem, all to no avail. This, however, changed when I gave in and upgraded to a faster tier of internet speed, since I had the "standard" 3Mbps. Switching to the second tier (15Mbps), solved the problem instantly. For two days now we've been going through all the titles that didn't play before, only to have them come up instantly and play without glitches. I called Netflix again to provide some positive feedback, and they mentioned that "a faster connection usually results in a better streaming service", which sounded a bit too generic of a comment, but hey, at least the issue is no longer there.

Now, I can't suggest to everyone with the same issue to immediately throw away all their equipment and replace it with new stuff, but at least look at any items in the path between the web and your device that could be potentially causing any troubles before pointing fingers. Even with fast internet connections, older/outdated routers or high latency could be introducing problems on the way.

As it was said before in the thread, if it was an issue with the TV, everyone (or at least more people) would be reporting similar problems.

There are several problems described in this thread. Some seem to be related to the Netflix account, or the users queue. Mine seemed to be apple router issues. It is apple and netflixs job to perform the debugging of the issues. I am grateful for the ideas that all have posted.

I never said I had a fix I only related how I personally "resolved" the problem and in both cases it involved ATV only which would lead anyone to suspect ATV as the culprit.

I am not a technician for either Apple or Netflix and I doubt anyone else here is either so I do not get paid to fix their problems. I am just another customer that pays for both services and I expect performance as advertised. I am not keen on troubleshooting these company's issues. I have a life. However, I know from twenty three years experience working in electronics manufacturing the finger pointing game between third part vendors and what being in the middle is all about. I will suspect anyone I see fit if it gets them off the dime and they start cooperating for the benefit of their shared customers without making tech jockeys out of the average untrained consumer.

So go back to ATV and Netflix and tell them to take care of business if
they want to retain their customer base and keep them satisfied before coming here and lecturing another user.

In any case, all of your pontificating solves nothing except demonstrate the frustration of the consumer in an ongoing issue that has nothing to do with them nor can they "fix."

All,
This problem started for me when I updated to the latest iOS for ATV2. Netflix would take an extremely long time to load a show then quit after a few minutes. Streaming to any other device worked fine, which ruled out bandwidth problems.

Called Netflix and they basic said to wait until it cleared up on its own. No help there.

Tried the manual DNS change (8.8.8.8) on ATV2 and nothing was better. Was about to slit my wrist when it occurred to me to unplug ATV and plug it back in. Basically a hard reset.

That worked.

So, while it is NOT a fix, it IS a work-around. Manually set your DNS on your ATV2 to 8.8.8.8, make sure it is set by looking at the TCPIP settings, put it to sleep, unplug it, wait 10 secs, plug it back in.

That should do it.

OH, if you are using an iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad and a remote you may have to reset the remote to get gesturing to work again once you've changed the DNS. Not sure why it matters, but gesture control from my iPhone stopped working once DNS was changed.

Bobbotov wrote:
I never said I had a fix I only related how I personally "resolved" the problem and in both cases it
involved ATV only which would lead anyone to suspect ATV as the culprit.

This is exactly the leap in "logic" I was illustrating. You cannot point to the ATV as the culprit at all. You did not account for the many sub-systems in software that really have nothing what-so-ever to do with the ATV, save the ATV displays the result. And I point out - again - that you went through two 'fixes', yet still point to the ATV as the problem. All you did was replace software with an exact copy of the software that was already there, which proves nothing. For all you know and can prove, Netflix may have been working on your account at that exact moment, causing it to begin working.

Also, as we see in the posting above, it may have been issues with your internet bandwidth which you made no effort to account for at all. Can you please explain to me how bandwidth issues are Apple's fault or responsibility? I am sorry that you do not like hearing these things, but they are true none-the-less. You simply did not apply any logical test to determine what the actual problem was, but here you are : dead certain it was the ATV even without one shred of proof to back it up.

I am sorry you have to hear this, but your way just muddies the waters and does nothing to bring clarity to the situation or a permanent 'fix' to anyone.

I am not a technician for either Apple or Netflix and I doubt anyone else here is either so I do not
get paid to fix their problems.

That would be incorrect. I am a Apple technician of over 20 years experience as well as being ACTC, ACSP, and APP. But all that means nothing when people don't stop and read what is being posted.

I am just another customer that pays for both services and I expect performance as advertised. I
am not keen on troubleshooting these company's issues.

Which is precisely the point - you assign blame without one shred of proof that it is so. You tried some things at random without recording any observations as to the situation improving or worsening but leapt directly to the conclusion without any evidence to back it up.

Apple teaches us a method to start external and work to the internal. Each and every break/fix troubleshooting session starts outside the product (power cords, HDMI cords, et cetera) and systematically and methodically works down to the software, while diligently recording one change at a time to eliminate what the problem isn't. Apple calls this +the half-split method+ as every time you make a change, it should be eliminating half of what isn't the problem. Whatever is left at the end of the troubleshooting MUST be the problem. Yes, it is time-consuming but it provably offers up a cause and a solution in one tidy little package.

At no point in the troubleshooting do we skip from symptom to declaration to conclusion.

I have a life. However, I know from twenty three years experience working in electronics
manufacturing the finger pointing game between third part vendors and what being in the middle
is all about. I will suspect anyone I see fit if it gets them off the dime and they start cooperating for
the benefit of their shared customers without making tech jockeys out of the average untrained
consumer.

But I fail to see how slinging baseless, incorrect accusations would get anyone 'off the dime'. You still have the same problem, which in all probability has nothing to do with Apple at all. No amount of 'forcing' Apple or Netflix 'off the dime' will change that fact one iota.

So go back to ATV and Netflix and tell them to take care of business if they want to retain their
customer base and keep them satisfied before coming here and lecturing another user.

Interesting. You want to reserve the right to 'tell' Apple to fix a problem probably not their fault, problem, or responsibility but do not want to be told you are responsible for a problem entirely, completely and solely of your own making.

In any case, all of your pontificating solves nothing except demonstrate the frustration of the
consumer in an ongoing issue that has nothing to do with them nor can they "fix."

Which, once again, is a statement completely devoid of proof. I have stated repeatedly :

* Netflix claimed responsibility for the problem.
* Netflix asked for patience while they isolated the problem, and issued fixes to the accounts affected.
* Without making a single change to my ATV what-so-ever, I now have a perfectly functioning unit.

That was the scientific method at work. During this one week time period, I abstained from making any changes so as to properly evaluate and measure if Netflix was, in fact, correct in their stated assumptions. It would have been incorrect to make changes in the interim willy-nilly, wake up one day to a working unit and proclaim in public it was all Apple's fault and they - in so many words - better **** well do something about it.

You simply did not have the proof to back up your declarations because you didn't put in the time doing proper troubleshooting to enable you to say what the problem even was. You still don't know what the problem was, but you are powerfully certain how to 'resolve' it, both times. You even tell us of two different 'resolutions' (without a hint of irony) as to why the second 'resolution' was even necessary if the first was truly a 'resolution' for your problem in the first place.

I appreciate that you do not want to put in the time to find out the 'why', but you should put in just as much time refraining from making wild accusations without the solid proof to back them up. And since I have a perfectly functioning ATV to offer up as proof that my method works, I would add that it is also the one of two verified 'fixes' so far in this entire discussion.

Please drop the know-it-all sanctimonious tone.

First, all of my other Netflix capable devices work fine (Wii, Bravia TV, laptops, desktops, iPhone, iPad) so there is definitely something unique about the ATV2 that has problems with Netflix. Mine also has issues with renting movies from iTunes and occasionally Youtube and others - poor bandwidth - again, on a network that has no problems with any other kind of streaming).

Does the ATV have insufficient buffer memory? Bad wifi chip? Who knows, but its wifi performance is worse than most other devices out there.

davepaisley wrote:
Please drop the know-it-all sanctimonious tone.

I will be the first to admit I do not know it all when it comes to repairing Apple equipment, but I do know more than most. But I will not drop the prodding to get people to use a logical procedure - any logical procedure! - before making wild accusations they can't back up with even a single fact.

First, all of my other Netflix capable devices work fine (Wii, Bravia TV, laptops, desktops, iPhone,
iPad) so there is definitely something unique about the ATV2 that has problems with Netflix. Mine
also has issues with renting movies from iTunes and occasionally Youtube and others - poor
bandwidth - again, on a network that has no problems with any other kind of streaming).

First of all, you just introduced at least six more variables to the situation. I am sure you have not taken into account each of those devices having a different resolution, therefore having differing bandwidth requirements to produce what you would judge to be an acceptable picture. If those bandwidth requirements differ from those of the AppleTV, then they are irrelevant to the troubleshooting of the AppleTV itself.

And I am sure that you have not verified that your minimum streaming requirements are met by the bandwidth your connection is capable of by doing things like visiting Speedtest.net to check to see if - in fact - your bandwidth was greater than the minimums at that point in time.

I am also sure you have not monitored your connection at your router/switch and recorded how much bandwidth each of these devices uses and compared that to the AppleTV before you made the pronouncement that your AppleTV is the culprit.

But you are correct about there being something unique with your ATV that has problems with Netflix : your account. I will go out on a limb and make the assumption you have not called Netflix and specifically discussed the problems with your AppleTV and not being able to access Netflix correctly.

Does the ATV have insufficient buffer memory? Bad wifi chip? Who knows, but its wifi
performance is worse than most other devices out there.

Based on what facts? This is why I have a problem : people making wild accusations without one single, solitary fact to back it up. That I have a perfectly functional AppleTV is proof the unit does not have any inherent defects, and points to the fact there is something else wrong in your situation that you have not accounted for. The fact that you say 'who knows' testifies to the truth of that.

I will repeat it one more time : each step along the way you MUST eliminate what isn't the problem, and you MUST change only one thing at a time and observe any improvement and degradation in the situation. At the end of the troubleshooting you will be able to answer that question of 'who knows', because I guarantee if you do you will know exactly what is wrong, and if it is the hardware you can offer up your proof to Apple and receive a repaired or replaced unit per the warranty. Better yet, you can come back here and give me a big, fat "I told you so", which I will accept with great cheer.

Just please stop this "I can't access Netflix so my AppleTV is broke" nonsense. Until you have the specific knowledge backed by the facts you cannot make this claim and be taken seriously.

Message was edited by: Buster Blocker

Vernon Seward wrote:
All,
This problem started for me when I updated to the latest iOS for ATV2. Netflix would take an
extremely long time to load a show then quit after a few minutes. Streaming to any other device
worked fine, which ruled out bandwidth problems.

Vernon, does your ISP throttle connections to their network based on MAC address? There are ISPs that will restrict bandwidth or deny a connection completely to devices which you have not registered the MAC address with them ahead of time. Some also use the MAC address to limit the number of devices, thus preventing people from setting up server farms on their connections. This would give you the illusion that your connection is fine, while leading you to believe there is something wrong with the AppleTV.

I am not saying this is the case with you, but I would be interested to know if this is the case with your ISP so we could check this off from the list of possible external causes. Additionally, it would be a great help if you could use a computer on your network to visit Speedtest.net and check your bandwidth to see if there is a bottleneck at the same time you are having problems.

"I too was having the same issues with specific titles that would play for 2-5 seconds, then kick me back to the movie menu."
Count me as having this problem.

I see there is a lot of noise in this thread, so I will keep it simple.

Point 1: This streaming client should be the best out there.

Point 2: The same movie at the same time day that has problems on my AppleTV plays back WITHOUT problems on my Wii.

Please brush up on your reading comprehension and read everything I wrote.

My ATV2 connects poorly (when wireless) with everything - including the iTunes store. The first movie I rented was going to be ready in 945 minutes. So, not just Netflix. Also, streaming from my own computer is poor/nonexistent, all this with the router 15 feet away across the room. I'm pretty sure Netflix aren't responsible for the iTunes store. I did spend a long time on the phone with Apple and even got my box replaced - all to no avail.

Now, all of those things work fine on any of the other 15 wifi devices I have (and no, I don't try to use them all at once, thanks.)

I have carefully turned everything off, rebooted the cable, router and turned on only the ATV2 - same problem.

And yes I tested the bandwidth (12Mbps) and no, none of the other devices have a problem.

Regardless of why, the fact is the ATV2 is the only wifi device that has any problems in my house and is more finicky than any other wireless device I own, and it seems to be quite a widespread problem.

For a device that is supposed to be literally plug and play, that is a major failure.

I'm glad I have the option of plugging it in via ethernet because otherwise it would be completely useless.

brian5678 wrote:
"I too was having the same issues with specific titles that would play for 2-5 seconds,
then kick me back to the movie menu."
Count me as having this problem.

And we have had evidence posted this is a possible bandwidth starvation issue, which does not point to the ATV being the culprit. Have you done any testing of your bandwidth to verify or deny there is a bandwidth starvation issue?

Point 1: This streaming client should be the best out there.

What evidence do you have that it is not? Given the evidence at hand (not everyone having the problem, no media-manufactured 'scandal', et cetera), I am curious as to how you draw the conclusion that Apple has anything at all to do with the quality of the streaming. The AppleTV is, after all, only a conduit and Netflix is solely responsible for their stream; The AppleTV is merely an interface between your network and your TV. If the bandwidth you have available is provably insufficient to meet the minimums AppleTV requires for streaming any content, precisely and exactly explain how this is in any way proof that Apple has a sub-standard device or software.

Point 2: The same movie at the same time day that has problems on my AppleTV
plays back WITHOUT problems on my Wii.

And as I have already pointed out, the Wii streams and displays at a different rate and resolution than does the AppleTV. All this proves is that your Wii meets the minimums necessary to meet your expectations and judgments of quality, not to mention possibly lower bandwidth availability. It does not prove your connection meets the minimums necessary for the AppleTV's higher quality, higher bandwidth requirements.

In other words, the maximum the Wii will display is 480p, which requires a magnitude less bandwidth than the 720p of the Apple TV. So will someone - anyone! - having these issues PLEASE test their bandwidth while having Netflix 'problems' and report back so we may get to the bottom of these issues once and for all using real, verifiable proof.

While waiting on that evidence, I have just completed another follow-up call with Netflix, and it appears there are problems to be addressed. They would share no hard and fast numbers with me, understandably, but they did say (by way of anecdotal information) relatively few AppleTV complaints are being called in. They are receiving a lower volume of calls than history has shown with other new Netflix streaming devices. To be blunt, Netflix cannot fix that which they are unaware of. If you are having ANY issues with Netflix streaming and AppleTV they encourage you to call it in. They sincerely want to know about any and all problems anyone has with Netflix and Apple TV.

Please call it in!

But it is also a huge piece of evidence that the vast majority of AppleTV's are - in fact - not problematic, which lends credence to my claim this is not inherently an Apple or AppleTV problem.

I also report to you the Netflix rep related that nearly all the issues they have resolved with AppleTV are bandwidth starvation issues. Netflix was quite willing to share the fact if the internet connection dips below 1.5MB/second, even momentarily, you WILL have problems. In my professional opinion everyone should consider the Netflix 1.5MB/second requirement as a concrete floor representing the very minimum necessary to participate in Netflix streaming. And if you truly wish to stream 720p (from Netflix or any other source) you should either prepare for long buffering times and interruptions or increase your bandwidth to a minimum of 4MB/sec.

*I cannot speak for Netflix and make no promises, warranties, or claims on their behalf*; that being said, it is my sole opinion in the near future anyone who calls Netflix with an AppleTV streaming issue may be required to conduct a bandwidth test as part of a sound troubleshooting procedure. This is not to say there have not been account problems; there have. Netflix wishes to have very active participation by customers in calling or contacting Netflix support so if there are issues of any sort with Netflix they may be addressed as rapidly as possible.

So unless someone has additional issues to bring to the fore, with evidence to back them up, it would appear by weight of evidence the AppleTV / Netflix issues fall into one of two camps :

1. Bandwidth starvation.
2. Account issues.

Based on the evidence and data collected Netflix is of the opinion - at the moment - that bandwidth issues are 99% of the AppleTV problem. If you can bring evidence and fact to the table it is otherwise, I encourage you to do so for the betterment of the entire community of AppleTV and Netflix users. If you cannot, I encourage you to refrain from muddying the waters more by slinging baseless, unprovable accusations as to exactly what the 'problem' is, or who is at 'fault'.

*PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE* : go and test, return and report; else, stay silent.