9.1.2 is here!!!

{quote:title=Mike Connelly wrote:}
I see your point, but I'd say it makes perfect sense for a pro to try an update as long as the previous version is backed up (which literally can be done with one key command). If it improves things, you get those improvements, and if it doesn't you just run the previous version.

You don't understand. Most pro studios are busy with the business end of making music. Once they get a working rig, they don't change nothing unless absolutely required. Read the trade mags and witness all G5 and first gen Mac Pros well entrenched in the studios (though usually running Pro Tools, with Logic on the side).

And even the non-commercial studios prefer to let an update "sit" for a couple months whilst those who don't mind living on the bleeding edge discover the bugs. (see update 9.1.2)

JP007 wrote:
I'm talking about beta testing among various systems and configs. Obviously if Apple thought it was ready for prime-time it would have been enabled by now. Witness the limitation of 16 HT cores on the new 12 core machine. Obvously, this cake needs more time to bake.

Whether they think it's ready for prime time or not, many users are using it and it seems to be working fine. It is a bummer that the 12s only support 16 threads instead of 24 but that's still an improvement over the previous version.

JP007 wrote:
You don't understand. Most pro studios are busy with the business end of making music. Once they get a working rig, they don't change nothing unless absolutely required. Read the trade mags and witness all G5 and first gen Mac Pros well entrenched in the studios (though usually running Pro Tools, with Logic on the side).

And even the non-commercial studios prefer to let an update "sit" for a couple months whilst those who don't mind living on the bleeding edge discover the bugs. (see update 9.1.2)

Of course I understand. Some pro studios have no downtime whatsoever and are unable to upgrade when they become available, or are in the middle of huge complex sessions and can afford no risk whatsoever.

But other pros can spare the five minutes it takes to install and reboot. Especially since most of the updates since 9.0 have had major bugfixes. I have saved a HUGE amount of time by trying the latest versions and getting those bugfixes right away instead of toughing it out with bugs for months. I update in a way that is fast and has zero risk for me (since I can instantly revert to the previous version) - I don't expect anyone else to do that, but it's a perfectly reasonable way to work. And yes, I make 100% of my living doing audio work - for me it has been a huge benefit to start taking advantage of the update fixes right away - each update has let me work more reliably and faster.

If you choose to wait, there are valid reasons for that. Go for it. But claiming that "no pros" do a particular thing is simply wrong, there are lots of pros out there who work in a lot of different ways. Your way is the best way for you, mine is the best way for me.

{quote:title=Mike Connelly wrote:}
Whether they think it's ready for prime time or not, many users are using it and it seems to be working fine.

It's just way too early to claim "Mission Accomplished" for the majority of users though, Mike. Case-in-point: reports are already coming out about problems with popular Apogee interfaces w/9.1.2. Third party plug conflicts and other issues likely to arise, given the lack of QA on this one...

So, if I read some of these comments correctly- hold off on updating to 9.1.2 until all the bugs have been fixed. So that would mean you would wait and install 9.1.3- since that would fix all the bugs of 9.1.2.
Yet, didn't we have this same discussion around 9.1.1- hold of until 9.1.2 so they have all the bugs squashed from 9.1.1.
Hmm, seems like some will perpetually be waiting for the next update- only to wait for the next update.

Just wanted to confirm that I now see 4 cores in Logic after the "fix" on an i5 MBP

Got a slight performance boost from 18 tracks before and 21 tracks now with the "benchmark test".
But as before the activity meter in Mac OS shows about 70 % when Logic shows
3 reds and 1 about 90%.

JP007 wrote:
It's just way too early to claim "Mission Accomplished" for the majority of users though, Mike. Case-in-point: reports are already coming out about problems with popular Apogee interfaces w/9.1.2. Third party plug conflicts and other issues likely to arise, given the lack of QA on this one...

You're making a straw man argument. I was talking about one specific fix for one specific problem, which does seem to be fixed. Obviously any software update may have any number of new bugs - my statements were only about the HT issue, not a blanket statement that the update was flawless and bug free.

JavaJ wrote:
So, if I read some of these comments correctly- hold off on updating to 9.1.2 until all the bugs have been fixed. So that would mean you would wait and install 9.1.3- since that would fix all the bugs of 9.1.2.
Yet, didn't we have this same discussion around 9.1.1- hold of until 9.1.2 so they have all the bugs squashed from 9.1.1.
Hmm, seems like some will perpetually be waiting for the next update- only to wait for the next update.

Do whatever you feel comfortable doing. Personally I like to backup then try the new update - if it's an improvement I continue to use it, if not I revert.

He's right Mike, most commercial studios do not upgrade at every release, in fact, of the 4 Logic studios I know of in this state... three still use Logic 7 and one uses Logic 8.02, it's a completely different mindset. Oh.. 2 out of 4 are still using G5's. This is especially true if they are running a stable/reliable setup.

If they're going to upgrade software it's almost always at a downtime of minimum 1 week, more often than not, 2 weeks. There's so many past sessions that have to be accessed, plug in compatibility...etc.

The above is also true for OS upgrades. If you have a G5 10.4.11 and Logic 8.02 is a great combo.

I know it seems out of touch with the benchmarks being posted but most studios here are audio based, recording live musicians and only use VI as sweeteners or special projects. This is not dance stuff just mainstream rock, country and some jazz. Benchmarks of 125 instances of Space Designer are meaningless to these folks.

pancenter-

{quote:title=Mike Connelly wrote:}my statements were only about the HT issue, not a blanket statement that the update was flawless and bug free.

My comments do apply to the overall state of the update but I was originally referring to the HT "fix", in that if Apple left this off by default, it is likely for a reason and not just a stupid "oops-y, tee-hee-hee... I did it again" thing. My point is that having a dozen or so forum-ites chime in after a few hours of playing with the update hardly confirms the "fix" a done-deal.

Hey, but if it works for you, go nuts, have fun, make music, etc. etc.

I hate Logic 9.1.2
When I open some of my 3rd party plugins into a personal template, Logic crashes. I lost performance because Logic 9.1.2 does not (officially) recognize HT - Thanks Apple, you know how to make fun of your customers ... I thought Macs were great and reliable compare to PCs. Next time I will save time & money in buying a PC + Cubase.

Pancenter wrote:
He's right Mike, most commercial studios do not upgrade at every release

Not all professional Logic users are "commercial studios" (and for the record the comment that started this tangent was talking about "pro users" not "commercial studios"). Not everyone works the same way, and as long as you take the proper precautions, trying an upgrade immediately is risk free and a perfectly valid way to work. It's easy to believe that everyone else works the same way that you do, but that doesn't make it true.

I agree that it makes sense to stick with a stable/reliable setup, but every version of Logic I have run has had room for improvement. Fortunately, the updates have tended to fix much more than they have broken.

JP007 wrote:

it is likely for a reason and not just a stupid "oops-y, tee-hee-hee... I did it again" thing

I'd like to believe that, but based on the Apple/Logic track record, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Krryss wrote:
I lost performance because Logic 9.1.2 does not (officially) recognize HT

1) Go back to 9.1.1.
2) If you really want to try 9.1.2, have you tried the terminal command?

Mike Connelly wrote:

1) Go back to 9.1.1.
2) If you really want to try 9.1.2, have you tried the terminal command?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your answer.
How can I go back to 9.1.1? (simply drag and drop Logic? I have the 9.1.1 on another HD)
And yes I tried the terminal command, but I am not sure to have the same performance than before. And since 9.1.2 all the personal templates I created or I create crash when I open some of my 3rd part plugins like Nerve or Alchemy ...

If you have it on another drive, just copy it over and make sure you rename it so you don't confuse the two versions.

Question: Is the "terminal command fix" permanet, or is it something that needs to be run after every shutdown or restart?


pancenter-

Not read this whole topic in depth but having checked the specs quickly for my system processors earlier (Dual Quad xeon 5300) it would seem they don't have hyperthreading. I guess that means this whole debacle is irrelevant to me right? Just wanted to check with others using perhaps the same system!

Cheers.