java is deprecated?

From a security perspective, is probably a good move. Let it work on top of the OS environment like Parallels DT. And the modern Macs are more then fast enough for this task.

Phone apps and dashboard apps have really captured the machine portability that Java once represented.

I wonder where my reply to this thread went.

I work for a company which develop a large enterprise solution, we have to be cross platform and quite a few of our customers run in a mixed environment where going from almost exclusively macs to almost exclusively windows.

I wonder how long it will take before our customers will start asking us if they have to replace their macintoshes to continue to use our software.

We need a definite answer quite soon as to what we can expect, is this move because Oracle has indicated they will take over the implementation of a Java runtime for MacOS, or is it because Apple does not want to have a viable platform in the enterprise space?

I have worked as a developer on the mac platform for more than 20 years, the last 10 exclusively using Java. I would hate to have my Macbook Pro i7 be the last Macintosh I use for development, but Java is my bread and butter.

Hi,

I do not know where your reply went but I was satisfied with this answer.
Your worries are much to do about nothing: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3 LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html%23//appleref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-DontLinkElementID2 states:

The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles of those products.

27" iMac i7 12 GB RAM Mac OS X (10.6.4) G4 450 MP GB 1.5 GB RAM w/(10.5.8/10.4.11/9.2.2)
If you have any other concerns I suggest that you google the situation as there is much more out there today then was yesterday.

Good Luck
Mara

Being an avid Java developer using the Mac platform the exclusion of Java would be unacceptable. Like others above have said, I would hate for my Mac to be the last Mac I ever purchase. I encourage others to submit feedback under the Mac OS X category stressing to Apple the importance of Java in our daily lives and work. I'm hoping Mac OS Lion will have full Java support or at least have the option to download and install Java from Oracles website. This is really a horrible decision on Apple's part.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

No more big Java updates?

I think I'm going to switch back to Linux... Anyone know a good distro to use with a Macbook Pro (I know they all work, but some work better with the trackpad/wireless/etc...)?

Maybe it was removed like mine. I wrote a very critical and they didn't like it and removed it.

Hi Felix,

I also put a post on this forum once that 'they' did not like and they removed it.
Yea, let's all help each other, until Apple does not like what you post!

Regards,
Mara

All of these "I'm going to dump my Mac to stay with Java" responses are just plain laughable. Apple has zero trouble attracting new developers these days. You won't be missed. Why should Apple subsidize Java development for PCs? If you want to continue to write develop Java software for PCs, that's fine. But you aren't going to be able to do it on Apple's dime anymore. Apple thinks that Javascript and HTML5 are going to be the end of Java, and I think they are right.

etresoft wrote:
All of these "I'm going to dump my Mac to stay with Java" responses are just plain laughable. Apple has zero trouble attracting new developers these days. You won't be missed. Why should Apple subsidize Java development for PCs? If you want to continue to write develop Java software for PCs, that's fine. But you aren't going to be able to do it on Apple's dime anymore. Apple thinks that Javascript and HTML5 are going to be the end of Java, and I think they are right.

This statement is clearly coming from someone who is not a Java developer possibly an Apple employee?. (don't answer that) I am simply concerned that Java won't be included in future versions of Mac OS. I would be perfectly happy if Oracle takes over and creates Java for Mac OS just like they do for Windows. I just think its an obviously stupid decision to try and remove Java from Mac OS. As for the statement "on Apple's dime". Apple is a rich company that can clearly afford to continue to create releases of the Java runtime environment. Money is not the issue. I also wouldn't compare Java to HTML5, with Java you can create powerful desktop applications that can run on virtually any operating system. HTML5 is strictly for the web, if i'm not mistaken.

AppleGeek692 wrote:
This statement is clearly coming from someone who is not a Java developer possibly an Apple employee?.

There are a handful of actual Apple employees who post in Apple Discussions. You can identify them by the Apple logo under their alias. I doubt they would ever contribute to a thread like this one.

You are correct that I am not a Java developer. I used Java 1.0 back in grad school and again in 2006 or so. I have worked with Java programmers a number of times. It is not a bad language, but there are certain traits about Java programmers that I find very amusing. Why is it that every Java program is critically dependent on the very latest patch if one library or another? And how did they ever ship anything in the previous 4 years before that patch? That trend continues today. All of the sudden Apple's JDK is critical for Java development. Up until now it always seemed to drive Java programmers furious because it was never up to date.

I am simply concerned that Java won't be included in future versions of Mac OS.

How many other compilers are included in Mac OS X? Zero, unless you count the optional Xcode installer. All of the compilers in Xcode are open-source. Why does Java have to be special? In the future, Java on the Mac will probably be similar to FORTRAN on the Mac right now. Apple deprecates old tools all the time. GCC is deprecated for crying out loud!

I would be perfectly happy if Oracle takes over and creates Java for Mac OS just like they do for Windows.

Then you should tell Oracle that. Apple has already made their decision.

I just think its an obviously stupid decision to try and remove Java from Mac OS.

Why? Java developers can figure out how to get it running. Developers building all these enterprise Java solutions can include a JVM with their app. People used to do that all the time with Java.

As for the statement "on Apple's dime". Apple is a rich company that can clearly afford to continue to create releases of the Java runtime environment. Money is not the issue.

No it isn't. I think Apple just doesn't want to do it anymore. What's the crime in that?

I also wouldn't compare Java to HTML5, with Java you can create powerful desktop applications that can run on virtually any operating system. HTML5 is strictly for the web, if i'm not mistaken.

I think you are mistaken. You should watch some of the Safari development videos. HTML5 is going to kill Java in the enterprise.

I also wouldn't compare Java to HTML5, with Java you can create powerful desktop applications that can run on virtually any operating system. HTML5 is strictly for the web, if i'm not mistaken.

I think you are mistaken. You should watch some of the Safari development videos. HTML5 is going to kill Java in the enterprise.

I understand your point of view but i'm not mistaken about HTML5. I won't argue that HTML5 isn't great for creating powerful web applications but HTML5 is not meant to create desktop applications outside of the browser whereas Java is very good at doing just that. So will HTML5 overtake Java in the web browser? Maybe. Will it overtake Java on the desktop, I don't think so. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. Java has many more uses then just Applets. I would more readily compare HTML5 to Flash or Javascript.

etresoft wrote:

How many other compilers are included in Mac OS X? Zero, unless you count the optional Xcode installer. All of the compilers in Xcode are open-source. Why does Java have to be special? In the future, Java on the Mac will probably be similar to FORTRAN on the Mac right now. Apple deprecates old tools all the time. GCC is deprecated for crying out loud!

Huh? The gcc compiler included with XCODE is a heavily modified (by Apple) version of GCC.

From the OS X 10.6.4 GCC man page:

{quote}Note that Apple's GCC includes a number of extensions to standard GCC (flagged
below with "APPLE ONLY"), and that not all generic GCC options are available or
supported on Darwin / Mac OS X."{quote}

GCC deprecated? What on earth are you talking about?

I'm am not a Java programmer per se, I'm a bioinformatics developer. I use whatever tool is appropriate to the task, some of the tools I use do depend on Java (Tomcat). I've been using OS X for the last 9 years because it has been a great general purpose development platform. In part this is because it provided a convenient collection of development tools in one package. If Apple no longer want to market the Mac as platform for general purpose developers that's their business, but then Macs will no longer be suitable for my business.

But who writes Java applications for the desktop? Anyone other than IBM and DoD? Any desktop Java applications will be replaced with HTML5 and Javascript. There is probably quite a bit of server-side Java working going on, but do these people use the Apple Java? Apple knows exactly how popular Java is and has decided it isn't worth their time to build their own. People still use Macs to develop in Lisp and FORTRAN without the benefit of an Apple-branded compiler. It will be the same for Java.

etresoft wrote:
But who writes Java applications for the desktop? Anyone other than IBM and DoD? Any desktop Java applications will be replaced with HTML5 and Javascript. There is probably quite a bit of server-side Java working going on, but do these people use the Apple Java? Apple knows exactly how popular Java is and has decided it isn't worth their time to build their own. People still use Macs to develop in Lisp and FORTRAN without the benefit of an Apple-branded compiler. It will be the same for Java.

Try to bear in mind that software development is a very big world, and just because you are personally ignorant of something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There are a few hundred thousand academics and scientists around the world who are writing number crunching apps and libraries in Java because they are reasonably cross-platform, but also perform reasonably well. HTML5 is completely irrelevant to what we're doing, and Javascript is never going to cut the mustard for numerical work, because that's not what it's designed for. I mostly work in C and Python, but I wrote a Java desktop app earlier this year. The primary applications I work on are written in C, but depend on the Tomcat Java web application server to present them as a web services. And yes, I do run it under OS X. It runs on Linux too of course, but I'm certainly not going to be buying any Apple hardware in order to install Linux on it. Since I've personally purchased about $10,000 of apple hardware in the last 6 years, I would think that would given Apple some pause. Sure, I can hope that Oracle or a third party will step up and write a JVM for OS X, but it really upsets my boss when I have words like "hope" in my project schedules.

The academic/scientific market is small relative to the theoretical general consumer market, but in the past it has made up a significant chunk of Apple's market share for computers. If Apple want's to dump that market segment, that's their business. But as a long standing customer I just want them to know that they're heading down a track that means their product will no longer meet my needs.

Message was edited by: CharlesEGrant to correct a couple of errors in grammar.

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