Typographical Options

As a long-time Word (if you'll pardon the expression) user, I have found Pages less than flexible and somewhat convoluted, nevertheless, I have renounced Microsoft and all of their evil works, and shall persevere with Pages until I sink into my grave. In my work I require many characters that the average user never looks at, like alternate ampersands, long s, etc. Using the ampersand as an example, I know that the font I'm using has three different versions (including the one I need), as it is displayed in the 'Repertoire' in Font Book. How the devil do I insert it? It does not appear in the character palette, and I did check the various selections (alternative stylistic sets) in the font window, but I still get the ordinary ampersand. In Word, one simply opened 'insert special characters' and every available one was there, to select and insert. Of course, Pages is not Word, so — what does one do?

MacBook, Mac OS X (10.5.8), Flat broke and bored s---less.

Posted on Oct 25, 2010 4:54 PM

Reply
24 replies

Nov 2, 2010 9:37 AM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

If memory serves, did you not post that no-one would every want to use the Glyph Catalogue of the Character Palette for typesetting of glyph alternates?


I did post last year that I thought normally people would use the keyboard plus the typography pane instead of the Character Viewer. I forgot to suggest that to the OP.

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10411357#10411357

caused the composition to become completely unsearchable.


I don't think any text becomes "completely" unsearchable because it contains a glyph variant.

Nov 3, 2010 4:52 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

I did post last year that I thought normally people would use the keyboard plus the typography pane instead of the Character Viewer


Right, as recalled. Note in passing that the human interface of the Apple Character Palette with the Glyph Catalogue and the Apple Typography Palette with the Glyph Variants subsection straddles Adobe's idea from PostScript 2 in 1990 and Apple's idea from TrueType 2 in 1992. This is also true of Adobe's human interface in InDesign and Quark's in XPress that both expose a glyph picker interface and a feature selector interface. WorldScript in Mac OS 9.x only exposes a feature selector interface as did its antecedents.

The PostScript Language Reference, second edition, December 1990, introduces the GlyphShow operator that would work as a glyph picker with ISO-IEC 10036/AFII standard glyph identifiers. TrueType 2 rejects the concept of cross-font glyph identifiers in favour of private and font-dependent glyph identifiers so that product differentiation for fonts is possible (each font has its own glyph repertoire for presentation forms and its own localistation for those presentation forms).

I don't think any text becomes "completely" unsearchable because it contains a glyph variant.


Reread the original post in this thread. The original post revolves around regular use of glyph variants, not rare use of glyph variants.

"In my work I require many characters that the average user never looks at, like alternate ampersands, long s, etc."

Henrik

Nov 3, 2010 7:19 AM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

I ran a test inputting a half-dozen glyph variants of ampersand from Zapfino into Pages using the Character Viewer glyph variant pane when set to View = Code Tables, and found there was no searchability problem in either .pages or .rtf format.

Of course it did not work in .pdf. I don't know whether the OP plans to convert his work to .pdf, or whether searchability matters for his particular purpose.

Nov 3, 2010 9:12 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

from Zapfino into Pages


Linotype Zapfino with OpenType layout and without a Zapf table or Linotype Zapfino with TrueType 2 layout and with a Zapf table?

using the Character Viewer glyph variant pane when set to View = Code Tables


View: Code Tables, Font Variation: Open, Glyph Variants in Selected Font applies only if there is a Zapf table in the font file. The function of the Zapf table is to supply the ToUnicode mapping in the font itself somewhat similar to the data space to colourimetry space tables in ICC profiles, instead of supplying the ToUnicode mapping in an application-dependent manner per the Adobe Type 42 Specification.

Of course it did not work in .pdf.


One wonders if glyph variants / presentation forms are searchable when the ISO 19005 PDF/A supplement to Microsoft Office 2010 is installed, now that Word for Windows 2010 supports OpenType Layout with glyph variants / presentation forms over and above those that came to be encoded in ISO10646/Unicode (Anglo-American f-ligatures). In complex scripts where more drawing is supposed to be done in glyph space than in character space, this problem of search support for presentation forms drawn in glyph space looms larger than it does in the Latin script.

/hh

Nov 3, 2010 10:53 AM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

Linotype Zapfino with OpenType layout and without a Zapf table or Linotype Zapfino with TrueType 2 layout and with a Zapf table?


The one that Apple provides in OS X, which I assume is the latter variety.

In complex scripts where more drawing is supposed to be done in glyph space than in character space, this problem of search support for presentation forms drawn in glyph space looms larger than it does in the Latin script.


If you have not already seen them, you might be interested in the series of blog articles by Kaplan about the failings of pdf for Tamil:

http://m10lmac.blogspot.com/2010/07/perils-of-pdf.html

Nov 3, 2010 12:19 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

If you have not already seen them, you might be interested in the series of blog articles by Kaplan about the failings of pdf for Tamil


The thing is, though, that it does only not fail for complex scripts like Tamil, it completely fails for conventional Anglo-American academic composition, too. Considering that there are presumably many more paying customers in the EU and the US than on the Indian subcontinent, and considering that these paying customers have been advised in advertising that search is supported, perhaps an itsy bitsy bit better implementation and documentation might improve commercial credibility 🙂

/hh

Nov 3, 2010 3:03 PM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

One wonders if glyph variants / presentation forms are searchable when the ISO 19005 PDF/A supplement to Microsoft Office 2010 is installed, now that Word for Windows 2010 supports OpenType Layout with glyph variants / presentation forms over and above those that came to be encoded in ISO10646/Unicode (Anglo-American f-ligatures).


This is indeed a good question. I've often wondered whether the inability of earlier versions of Windows Office to produce the kind of English text that causes pdf searchability problems is a major reason that these potential problems have not attracted more attention.

Nov 3, 2010 5:32 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

I've often wondered whether the inability of earlier versions of Windows Office to produce the kind of English text that causes pdf searchability problems is a major reason that these potential problems have not attracted more attention.


Per the Apple TrueType Specification of 1990, the CMAP Character Map can as input take more than 256 character codes, but per the Adobe Type 42 Specification the CMAP tag is stripped and the GLYF tag is subset into arrays of maximum 256. Thus when multilingual characters are used non-contiguously, what was one simple font may become multiple Type 42 fonts, and if the supplements to the TrueType Specification for presentation forms are added, then the complications for inversion from imageable composition back to character information increase.

There are three ways TrueType splines may be represented in PostScript, either they may be converted to bitmaps, or they may be converted to Type 1 (which was the case in initial versions of OS X), or they may be converted to Type 42. Adobe didn't make matters much better by implementing the PSPrinter so that if the application asked for fake bold, PSPrinter multiplied the spline with small offsets to simulate bold which in turn caused problems for search support. Another set of problems arise as the character input is inferred from glyph names and glyph positioning, that is, if one implemented a format 1 state-based kerning table for TrueType 2 for proper spacing per Jan Tschichold's specifications for post-war Penguin typography, for example, then these might appear to Acrobat's algorithms as word spaces rather than as spaces within words. Shlomo Perets has discussed these algorithmic inference problems on PlanetPDF starting in 2000. With regard to problems with inversion in PDF for composition of complex scripts, these are discussed e.g. in the documentation for FontLab 5 by Adam Twardoch in 2005.

The problem is not whether the problem has been discussed, the problem is whether one reads the discussion of the problem 🙂.

/hh

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

Typographical Options

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.