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New Format Sucks!

What the H E double hockey sticks have they done to the format of this forum? It ***** big time. It is neither as intuitive or informative as the old one. I guess I will go elsewhere until they undo this abomination of a format.

Posted on Apr 17, 2011 7:04 PM

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154 replies

Apr 20, 2011 12:09 PM in response to babowa

babowa wrote:


OT:


What the H E double hockey sticks


I know that you are upset right now, but I have to say I had never heard that expression and find it absolutely and positively priceless. I have added it to my repertoire (with your permission)...


😁


Ha-ha, Barbara.


I believe you are not originally from the U.S., correct?


I first heard that phrase in elementary school (in the "good old days" when teachers would have whopped you upside the head for uttering the word).

Apr 20, 2011 12:41 PM in response to Ronda Wilson

Ha-ha, Barbara.

I believe you are not originally from the U.S., correct?


Correct 😁


I first heard that phrase in elementary school (in the "good old days" when teachers would have whopped you upside the head for uttering the word).


Well, where I come from, we are taught to be precise, honest, and direct and therefore not hampered by having to be "politically correct", so - as you put it here - we don't beat around the bush. That's why there wouldn't be a similar expression in my native tongue 😎

Apr 20, 2011 12:53 PM in response to Topher Kessler

Topher Kessler wrote:


Unfortunately preciseness and honesty can often get you slapped, flunked, fired, or even arrested. 😟

I am absolutely not going there and I don't want to know what kind of environment you usually deal with - I've never gotten slapped, flunked, fired, or arrested and I don't appreciate inferring that I might have. End of this discussion and inappropriate remark.

Apr 20, 2011 7:49 PM in response to Topher Kessler

Topher Kessler wrote:


I've noticed the majority of people who completely dislike it are relatively new to the Apple Support site...


Want to put some data against that?! What's your interesting in denying regular, long time users have legitimate frustrations with the new forums, you don't work in corporate management driving efficiency-gains by any chance do you?


Apples developer bug-tracking board (RADAR) is so function-deplete there is actually a public RADAR to compliment it. Apple does a heck of a lot of things right, that doesn't mean they can't take fair criticism. They might not welcome it but generally they respond to a popular and reasoned critique.


The fact that you actually like the new look and feel says quite a bit about your aesthetic and UX standards. I heard Duplo™ is rather good fun to play with.

Apr 21, 2011 5:56 AM in response to smalcom

Well... I'm really disappointed with this new forum format. I really don't see anything redeeming about it vs. the way it was. But... I've griped enough about that in other posts. Providing support in these forums has always been something that I really enjoy doing and I spend quite a bit of time browsing questions and helping out when I can. Since the change, I've done much less since it's so difficult to keep track of things. Since I really don't want to give up and miss out on doing something I really enjoy... I'm going to try and see if there are maybe some things I just haven't figured out or that can possibly be done more easily:


I used to be able to have shortcuts to the individual product forums that I knew the most about since I was more interested in providing support and not asking questions. For example, I would go right to the MacBook Pro forum and see a listing of questions with the most current activity on top as well as indicators showing if there was any new content in threads I had previously viewed.... or just new postings that I hadn't looked at yet. There was a "My Discussions" link on the right that would quickly let me look at just those threads I had posted in and check the activity as well. I would use the "My Discussions" section to see if anyone had posted any follow up questions to things I had posted responses to... or just to follow threads I was involved in.


With the new set up, I can still use a shortcut to get to the individual product pages... so I'm happy with that. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell (that I can see) if there has been any new activity in any threads I may have previously viewed. The only way I can see if something is a new thread is that it is not preceded with a "Re:".


So far as keeping track of my previous support comments. This is the only way I have been able to do it... I go to "Your Stuff" and then "Discussions". This takes to to a listing of threads I have commented in, but they don't appear to be in any discernable order. I'm not particularly interested in checking the status of threads I posted in a year ago, yet some of those appear in the top of the list and, as far as I can tell, there is no way to change the sort order for how they are listed. Regardless, from this page, I can select "Overview" under the "Your Stuff" heading on the right. This seems to take me to something that shows more recently accessed posts, yet they are still in no particular order. The first shows last activity 60 minutes ago... the next is 4 months ago... then one day ago... etc. Again, I don't see any way to sort this list in any way other than the rather random way it is displayed. I realize going forward, I can bookmark threads to make getting to them a little easier. This should work well... but it is an extra step needed by me to do something that was pretty much done automatically before. I can't really say I see this as an improvement.


In the previous system, I would page through the questions until I saw something that I thought I could respond to... or just to browse the questions. I would click on a question I was interested in. If it was something I could respond to, I would... if not... I would just go back to the previous page. It appears that with the new set up, if you use "More" at the bottom of the page to view any threads beyond the first page, when you go back a page, you're stuck on the first page again having to select "More" again to get to the next page. The further down you had gone previously the more difficult it is to get back to where you were and you basically have to scan through pages of threads in some cases where previously we were able to simply go back to the page that actually had the threads we were just viewing.


I really am trying to see the benefit to the changes that have been made here. That's the reason I've taken the time to just point out some of the issues I'm having. Even if providing support here were slightly more difficult than it used to be, I could live with that. The problem I'm having is that it has become much more difficult and certainly less efficient. I see how many aspects of the new set up can make asking a single question easier for the poster to monitor responses. But, there is simply no (as in zero) question that it makes things more difficult for those of us that try to provide support. Keep in mind... it could be argued that this site is for people asking questions so it is geared to them to be able to get their questions posted as easily as possible. That would be all well and good if Apple had a hired staff that was responding to those questions. But, that's not the case, Apple relies on us... the support community... to provide those answers. So, it's just as important that the site be user friendly to those providing support as it is for those asking the questions.


I hope to be able to continue providing support here. I'm just not sure that the new system that has been implemented is an ideal tool for a support forum. I simply don't believe it offers the same type of functionality as the previous system nor do I believe it is designed to do so. I fear that the capabilites of the software itself may make it impossible to get us back to the level of usability that we, as supporters, previously had. I hope I'm wrong and look forward to being proven so.

Apr 21, 2011 6:07 AM in response to wideEyedPupil

I have watched for a few days as this 'mess' has progressed, (?) with disappointment.


It amazes me that some people (like Topher Kessler) are so vociferous in the defence of something that is so obviously deficient and unwieldy compared with the previous incarnation. 'doth protest too much' is more like 'doth support too much' that I have, personally, to question the honesty, veracity and motives or those who 'like' the new format so fully when it has such obvious flaws......


Personally, I find that some FACILITIES are improved while some aspects of USABILITY have taken massive steps backwards. It is more difficult to locate, follow and respond in context in many ways compared with previously. That makes it a disappointment, probably resulting in fewer visits to try to help those who are in need of help - something which makes me ask "How have 'Communities' improved things for those in need of 'Support'?"!!!

Apr 21, 2011 6:29 AM in response to Topher Kessler

Topher Kessler wrote:


Currently it does seem more like a lateral move, but I think it provides a much better framework for Apple to build upon in the future to add new features and make alterations. The previous forums were fine for just having discussions, but adding new features and expanding functionality (whatever they may be) may have taken more effort in the long run than redesigning the site.


...just my guess, though.


Your conclusion is honest!


How much was spent on this build vs. extending the old build?


This project has been somebody's baby and I'm not that impressed so far but reserving final judgement until I have given a fair trial. When Adobe was rebuilding their forums (which were really poor by commercial standards) they had a whole Chapter devoted to what should we do, how can we improve it. I pointed to Apple Discussions and noted some really time-saving one-click solutions to get useful information. I find that information has become scattered and two-click or three-click but still finding my way around.


Some parts of Communities seems to share code/art with Adobe Forums like the Reply box button icons so there's some irony (for me at least ;-]).User uploaded file


So they are both Jive. There's certainly some extension of functionality in post editor but not so much as the Adobe implementation.


My main grip is that Communities looks like ***** with the overly large and heavy Lucida Grande at 18pt (or whatever) and cheesy little (large actually!) iChat bubbles. Shadows here and there but not up to Apple's Graphic Design standards by a long way (Discussions was pretty okay i thought) Don't go for paged comments either, too slow moving through them for cut and pasting, rereading points etc. Page redraws a more laggy than old discussions from memory. HTML toggling is a bonus. the old preview tab used to jam every now and then and wasn't a speed demean either.


Other than that there's the parsing of old threads in the wrong way plain texting what should be hidden Markup/HTML. Covered that in another thread, that's just a mistake because somebody didn't do their job, infact the person who QA/alpha-tested didn't do their job either, and so on up the chain b/c parsing old threads correctly would have been easy to test repeatedly through the compilation phases and even a non-tecnical person could have gone and had a good look through old material to see it's come through up to snuff.

New Format Sucks!

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