10.4.4 Ruined my computer

"WOE and ANGUSH...a great nashing of teath...a constant pulling of hair!!! And nothing is the same! It started with Windows media player. I thought it a small thing so I bought some 3rd party stuff and to this day still cant get some file types to play. Then all other apps became affected in one way or another. As I write this, for the second time, Safari has crashed / hung. There is not an app that I have that has not needed a fix, debug, upgrade or just plane wont start. Earlier today, even my old trusty Entourage stoped and just stairs at me with that blank accusing start up screen. And not all at once, it has progressed with time. "

Bruce, this is what you posted early. You are asking to be taken seriously. I have been working with a variety of Macs regularly, especially since OS X came out five years ago. I have read and posted extensively on every type of problem that has come up with updates etc. I have never seen an update take a previously healthy Mac and create what you have described above. So for me, you are likely either given to hyperbole or trolling. Time will tell if the 10.4.4 update has caused the kind of major trouble you are convinced of. I seriously doubt it. If you are trying to suggest that 10% of everyone who updated to 10.4.4 is having serious problems, you'll have to prove it. You can't prove it by quoting people hitting on this forum. I read MacFixit, MacWorld, MacCentral and other sites. I see nothing to suggest what you are suggesting, rather the usual individual anecdotes regarding update problems. There are millions of Mac users around the world. How many of them are going to bother posting here that their 10.4.4 update went without a hitch?

ds

iMac G5 20 inch, 15 G4 Powerbook Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Unfortunately I have to agree with some of the other people that have posted here that there does appear to be an issue with 10.4.4 on some machines. I am a software engineer working for a small all Mac development house. Almost everyone in the office has updated (via Software Update) and thankfully only two of us have had problems. The bad news is that those problems appear to be very severe.

I too have experienced what one of the previous posts described as failure of almost every app. Here is a play by play account of what happened to me:

1. Upgraded from 10.4.3 to 10.4.4 via Software Update
2. Rebooted at the end of the update as required. Machine rebooted went through all of the startup steps but when it came time to give me the login screen immediately went to a command line login prompt.
3. As a fairly savy command line user I went ahead and entered my login name and password only to find that I was in an infinite loop. I would get the blue screen and rainbow beach ball but then immediately put me right back at the command line login prompt.
4. I booted with the Tiger install disk. Ran disk utility, repaired disk and repaired permissions then tried to reboot. This time I would get to the point where the command prompt appear before but instead of getting a command prompt or login screen, would just hang with the rainbow beachball of death.
5. Next, starting to get a bit worried, I rebooted to target disk mode and began backing everything up to a different machine. (Yes I know... I do keep backups and should have done so before this install, but I got lazy). Anyway, here is where things really started to get ugly...
6. My attempts to copy files started to fail with the finder hanging on a single file and and then failing with an error message stating that it could not read or write to the disk. After pursuing this issue further, I noticed that quite a few files exhibited this behavior and that it was always the same files... Deduction: must be failing disk/perhaps bad sector problem.
7. I backed up what I could and then did an erase and install, selecting the zero all data option. The install went off without a hitch, no errors reported during the format and the machine rebooted into the OS as expected. I immediately ran software update and upgraded to 10.4.4 and rebooted. This time the reboot went fine and I thought all was well. Unfortunately, not an hour into playing with the OS apps started dropping like flies. The first was QuickTime: refused to launch. Then came Safari (I didn't have any third party apps installed yet), and then the finder became incredibly slow.
8. I rebooted only to be back at the blue screen of death. The system would appear to be booting but then hang when it came time for the login screen.
9. Next I rebooted in verbose mode so I could see what was going on. All would go well until login at which time the system would began an endless loop of I/O errors while trying to read sdisk3. Once again I think bad drive... time to head to the shop but being stubborn I wanted to try a few more things.
10. I next booted into single user mode and did an fsck which reported nothing wrong with the file system. I subsequently rebooted and did another erase and install, but this time tried to force a rebuild of the partition table by changing the partition setup a couple of times. After that I did another 0's erase and install.
11. Upon reboot all seemed well once again. This time I played with the OS a bit before doing the software update. 4 hours went by with no issues so I got brave and tried the update again. What do you know? Less than an hour after the update apps start dropping like flies again and files starting becoming corrupt. I also ran a repair disk and repair permissions before the update and no errors were found.
12. Assuming the worst about my drive I broke out the trusty Hardware Test CD that came with my iBook and put it through its paces... ran the "quick" test: everything passed; ran the "extended" test: everything passed. So now I'm thinking if it is a bad drive, surely something would have shown up either during the partition and reformat or the hardware test right?
13. Beginning to wonder about the update, I came here and read through this discussion and began to become more convinced that this may be an OS issue. So, as a last ditch effort before declaring my drive dead, I once more did a reinstall and here's where it gets really interesting...
This time to test my hunch about the OS, I did not reformat the drive. Instead I did an archive and install. Everything went fine and the machine rebooted without a hitch. Next, when the Software Update came up, I chose everything but 10.4.4, rebooted my machine as instructed and all seemed well. I next went and checked the files that appeared to be corrupt before the reinstall. All were miraculously cured!!! And, to end this tale, I'm making this post from the same machine which has now been running over 24 hours in 10.4.3 without a hiccup.

Obviously, before anybody flames me, I realize that it COULD still be a drive problem that has just not been triggered yet this time around. However, it does seem interesting that the consistencies in this entire mess were that the OS install and update NEVER generated a corrupt file or disk issue until I rebooted into 10.4.4 and then was very quick in appearing and that I was having no issues like this prior to the update, and have had no issues since reverting back to 10.4.3. Anyway, I'm much more of a software than a hardware guy, so if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions as to how to make this test any more definitive I am willing to give them a whirl.

iBook G4 14" 1Ghz Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Almost forgot one of the most interesting parts of this saga. The last time I was in 10.4.4 I downloaded a backup tool that came down as a disk image. The image mounted without a hitch but when I tried to copy the app to my applications folder, I got the same corrupt file error. Tried copying it to a couple of different locations (including my iPod) with the same results. The very same disk image mounted and copied flawlessly after the rollback to 10.4.3.

To Midwest:

Your post is most helpful, by showing through logical deduction and obvious depth of knowledge that there are problems associated with 10.4.4, which should give the "it works for millions, therefore those glitches are your problem pal" crowd. As someone else said in this thread, making an update for all the possible permutations and combinations of hardware, software, add-on's etc., is incredibly difficult, perhaps too much so given the laws of complexification.

Having said that, it is equally true that the greatest computer of all, the human mind/brain, collectively applied through fora such as this (or is it forae?), are able to come up with remarkable work-arounds and solutions.

So far, only iCal, Address Book and Mail have quit on me, and I did not encounter any errors in cloning the install. Since those 3 app's have interoperability with one another, I'd bet there is some common component that has barfed.

Also, in my case, I had to go back from 10.4.3 to 10.4.2 due to a serious, unfixable file corruption problem (invalid key length), which hasn't shown up in 10.4.4. Ockham's Razor suggests that there is a common problem here in the last 2 releases that shows up differently on different configurations. What is clear is that the folks who say there isn't really a problem, that it is some fault of the user or his/her configuration, are probably not correct.

So, let's help one another and ultimately Apple to solve these problems by being matter of fact and avoiding invidious aspersions, sticking to the facts as we know them. The Mac OS, with all its warts, is still the greatest OS on the planet, it just, like everything else, could always use a hand.

Having said that, can anyone recommend an address book and calendar program I can use? 🙂

Joe

p.s. What is it with this new version of the Discussion forum? I previewed my message, and it formats in a long, narrow window. On both FireFox and Safari, each message is of a differing width, and they don't always appear in chronological sequence. Anyone know what's up with that?

G3 Platinum Minitower Mac OS X (10.4.4) G4 upgrade 768 megs RAM, Radeon 64 meg video

"which should give the "it works for millions, therefore those glitches are your problem pal" crowd".

If you want to continue to misrepresent what we said feel free. It just seems that every time someone has a problem with an update they go into a "chicken little--the sky is falling" mentality. I am suggesting (as are others) that concluding that there is a widespread problem is quite hasty and likely incorrect.

"Also, in my case, I had to go back from 10.4.3 to 10.4.2 due to a serious, unfixable file corruption problem (invalid key length), which hasn't shown up in 10.4.4"

This part of your post doesn't exactly boost my confidence that the issues you are dealing with are being caused by an update. Are you saying that 10.4.3 also corrupted your Mac as well?

ds

iMac G5 20 inch, 15 G4 Powerbook Mac OS X (10.4.4)

"which should give the "it works for millions,
therefore those glitches are your problem pal"
crowd".

If you want to continue to misrepresent what we said
feel free. It just seems that every time someone has
a problem with an update they go into a "chicken
little--the sky is falling" mentality. I am
suggesting (as are others) that concluding that there
is a widespread problem is quite hasty and likely
incorrect.

"Also, in my case, I had to go back from 10.4.3 to
10.4.2 due to a serious, unfixable file corruption
problem (invalid key length), which hasn't shown up
in 10.4.4"

This part of your post doesn't exactly boost my
confidence that the issues you are dealing with are
being caused by an update. Are you saying that
10.4.3 also corrupted your Mac as well?

Dear David,

I appreciate your response, and I apologise if in any way you felt you were being singled out. You highlight a particular problem, the "sky is falling" mentality. Some people are indeed prone to over-reacting. Others are prone to go into denial. My background is both in sociology and communications (technology and society emphasis). My researches indicate that for every person who formally reports a software update problem, whether it be to Apple, here in discussions, or to Microsoft or whomever, there are anywhere between 10 to 30 who do not, who use informal channels for help, or who just suffer with the results because they are too busy/haven't the time, embarrassed, or whatever. In a worst case scenario some people "short-circuit" and switch OS's, only to encounter equivalent or worse problems, and become cynical. They don't understand the implications of Complex Systems Theory as it applies to their experience, so feel personally inadequate and turn their attention elsewhere. I'm quite sure that the number of glitches encountered by updaters of whichever platform is grossly under-reported. Additionally, this breaks down to show that older users are more likely to give up than those who "grew up" with computers. The latter group are also more likely to be affluent enough to be the majority of buyers of Macintosh computers, though I can't prove the latter statement, lacking demographic data from Apple. I do know the number of people encountering glitches after a software update is considerable. My phone regularly rings off the hook with people who know I am "in the know" about such things after every update, not a scientific measurement to be sure, but indicative nonethless.

In conclusion, the limits of complexity are a reality, a phenomenon that is increasingly manifesting in the computing world every day.

As to your last question, yes, 10.4.3 caused me serious corruption, moreso than the narrower problem with Address Book/iCal/Mail in 10.4.4. The invalid key length problem of 10.4.3 was widely reported throughout the net. Apparently the inquiries to 3rd party troubleshooting utility providers such as Micromat and Alsoft were in the thousands.

Best,

Joe

G3 Platinum Minitower Mac OS X (10.4.4) G4 upgrade 768 megs RAM, Radeon 64 meg video