Problem with Time Machine backup

HEY APPLE!

What about the "IT JUST WORKS" deal you have always talked about?

HEY YOU! You are NOT TALKING TO APPLE here; this is a user-to user forum.

This is not one you can blame on Apple. The NAS makers have had access to the new rules, and beta versions of Lion, for months.

Looks like my Iomega Network drive has the same problem as well, if the Lion developer files have been available for some time, how come none of the drive manufacturers and/or Apple saw this coming, and mitigated it?

The simple answer is that using time machine to anyting but a Time Capsule or OS X server over a network is in no way supported by Apple and they have no responsibility to fix bugs/limitations in 3rd party software (netatalk) that makes this work.

NetAFP (the current maintainer of netatalk) is refusing to open source the patch that fixes it until people that sell netatalk-enabled devices pay up. This is a breach of the GPL license, and highly immoral. I would suggest you all aid in getting them to do the right thing by contacting them at NetAFP.com and telling them to stop profiting of the work of others if they themselves won't release it back to the community.

APPLE (pondini) wrote:

HEY YOU! You are NOT TALKING TO APPLE here; this is a user-to user forum.

This is not one you can blame on Apple. The NAS makers have had access to the new rules, and beta versions of Lion, for months.

HEY APPLE! (Pondini, I am sure you will not mind if I refer to you as APPLE from now on, since you seem to speak on their behalf)

Of course I can blame Apple (the company, not you). They concede WD and Iomega, for example, the right to say that they are compatible with or, even worse, "made for" Macs! Besides this, they should have tested 10.7's compatibility more extensively, especially with the most popular brands of network drives.

It seems to me that APPLE wants to coerce us into buying Time Capsules.

By the way, the first time I said "HEY APPLE!" was merely an interjection (but thank you for letting me know that you also know that this is a user-to-user forum).

NeoNet Tim wrote:

The simple answer is that using time machine to anyting but a Time Capsule or OS X server over a network is in no way supported by Apple

That's not quite true.

It is supported to back up over a network to a shared drive on another Mac, or one connected to a Time Capsule, or a NAS that fully implements the AFP protocols required by Time Machine.

AppleCare won't (can't) actualliy help with most problems with backing-up to NASs, because they don't have all the NASs instructions, much less any of the actual hardware to try to replicate problems.

When has Apple ever stated that "or a NAS that fully implements the AFP protocols required by Time Machine. " was supported? Sure a drive connected to a Time Capsule is, and another Mac may be, but this is all just features of an Apple product. They do NOT make netatalk, they have no responsibility to make netatalk work with their devices. They don't have to tell you it won't work because they have no responsibility to even test it except with officially supported devices (Time Capsule, OS X Server). Just because it worked before, doesn't mean Apple officially supports it.

Either way, netatalk DOES work currently. But the patch is being held for ransom by NetAFP until people pony up money for GPLed sofware.

DH18 wrote:

HEY APPLE! (Pondini, I am sure you will not mind if I refer to you as APPLE from now on, since you seem to speak on their behalf)

Not at all. I do not work for Apple, and I disagree strongly with many things they do, but this situation is not one of them, and not their fault.

Of course I can blame Apple (the company, not you). They concede WD and Iomega, for example, the right to say that they are compatible with or, even worse, "made for" Macs!

I don't know the legality, but I don't think that applies to a NAS that is compatible with Snow Leopard but not Lion.

they should have tested 10.7's compatibility more extensively, especially with the most popular brands of network drives.

That's the NAS maker's role, not Apple's. Apple provided the information and beta versions of Lion at least 5 months ago, as they did to the developers of the thousands of 3rd-party apps. Apple doesn't test all those apps, either.

It seems to me that APPLE wants to coerce us into buying Time Capsules.

It appears your mind is made up, and no facts will change it (and it's beside the point).

But if that were true, they wouldn't have made it easier for 3rd-party app and NAS developers to interface with Time Machine on Lion. If you're familar with UNIX and Terminal, take a look at the man page for the new tmutil command.

DH18 wrote:

Besides this, they should have tested 10.7's compatibility more extensively, especially with the most popular brands of network drives.

They DID test compatitibility, that's WHY you're getting a message that saying your drive isn't compatible.

NeoNet Tim wrote:

When has Apple ever stated that "or a NAS that fully implements the AFP protocols required by Time Machine. "

Not in those exact words, but here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.6/en/15139.html and similar language in the Lion Help Center:

NeoNet Tim wrote:

They DID test compatitibility, that's WHY you're getting a message that saying your drive isn't compatible.

Are you saying that they deliberately made my network drive stop working? They are definetely coercing us into buying Time Capsules!

I spent money with an upgrade, and then my network drive simply is not compatible anymore... If they actually did test it (as you said it yourself) then they should at least have told me about it BEFORE I bought the upgrade and gave me a chance to decide if it was worth it!!

Negative, NetAFP is deliberately holding back releasing their time machine fix from the public, against GPL licensing. If you want to blame somebody for it not working, they're the culprit, not Apple. Most, if not all, NAS devices use netatalk for it, and they're wanting to extort money from you before they'll hand over open source code.

My last msg was posted inadvertently and was incomplete. So, can I still use Time Machine to create a back up on my external WD hard drive? If noy, I'll skip the lion upgrade.

If it's a firewire or USB hard drive, and is directly connected to the computer (as with 99% of users) this won't be an issue for you. Yours should still work just fine under Lion. It's only when people are backing up over the network to 3rd party NAS devices.

I followed this discussion as best as I could, but all is not clear.

I have a similar problem. My external WD HD connected via usb to airport extreme and hence in my network is shown in time machine preferences. But when the backup starts I get the following error (translated from dutch):

TIME MACHINE CAN NOT FINISH THE RESERVE COPY.

THE DISKCOPY FILE '/VOLUMES/BACKUP PETER-2/IMAC OF PETER JANSEN.SPARSEBUNDLE WHICH IS USED FOR RESERVECOPY, IS ALREADY BEIING USED.

What does this mean? How can I fix it?

Can a 3rd party hdd via airport extreme in my network, work in Lion?

peterwillem

Above is shown how it looks like.