Scroll Bar arrows Gone?

Or, in English, 'was.'

21 pages now. I hope apple is listening.

Unfortunately, while "petermac87" doesn't work for Apple, he does seem to espouse an attitude that's all too common there, namely that "computer" and "work" don't belong in the same sentence. Or at least, that products of Apple are not intended to be used for any kind of useful work.

It's only marginally better than Microsloth's (I'd use a stronger dysphemism, but this is presumably a family board) attitude that a bloatware-driven hardware upgrade treadmill is a good thing. Of course, come to think of it, Microsloth occasionally rips out useful features for no good reason, too; consider what a mess they turned Skype into when they took it over.

I've never once encountered a touch-screen device, of any pedigree whatsoever, that wasn't a complete and utter monument to Murphy's Law. Useful work, in almost any discipline, requires precision far beyond what a touch-screen device can deliver, and it requires a fair amount of efficiency. And for a good deal of useful work, the best way to achieve that combination of precision and efficiency is with (guess what) fully functional scrollbars, complete with arrows.

Then again, I'm sure Pete's answer to that would be to get a WinDoze box. Maybe Pete works for Microsloth.

But speaking as a programmer, I've occasionally removed a feature from an application. Usually either because it didn't work, and couldn't reasonably be made to work, or because it was dangerous, or because it was so obscure, I didn't even know it was there. Only to find out (especially in the latter case) that somebody was actually using it, and complaining about it's removal. In such cases, it didn't stay "removed" for very long. Because (despite the late Mr. Jobs' delusions of omniscience) users know what they need, and don't need anybody else to tell them differently. And when removal of a fetaure makes new versions of a product less fit for a given purpose than supposedly-obsolete versions, it gives users a reason to REFUSE updates.

Please stop responding to Pete. He is a troll trying to start flame wars. Just ignore him. Unfortunately this board doesn't have a feature to report offensive posts.

MacGuffin wrote:

Unfortunately this board doesn't have a feature to report offensive posts.

And the truth offends you? That is a shame. Write to Apple.

FEEDBACK http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Cheers

Pete

hbquikcomjamesl wrote:

Unfortunately, while "petermac87" doesn't work for Apple, he does seem to espouse an attitude that's all too common there, namely that "computer" and "work" don't belong in the same sentence. Or at least, that products of Apple are not intended to be used for any kind of useful work.

It's only marginally better than Microsloth's (I'd use a stronger dysphemism, but this is presumably a family board) attitude that a bloatware-driven hardware upgrade treadmill is a good thing. Of course, come to think of it, Microsloth occasionally rips out useful features for no good reason, too; consider what a mess they turned Skype into when they took it over.

I've never once encountered a touch-screen device, of any pedigree whatsoever, that wasn't a complete and utter monument to Murphy's Law. Useful work, in almost any discipline, requires precision far beyond what a touch-screen device can deliver, and it requires a fair amount of efficiency. And for a good deal of useful work, the best way to achieve that combination of precision and efficiency is with (guess what) fully functional scrollbars, complete with arrows.

Then again, I'm sure Pete's answer to that would be to get a WinDoze box. Maybe Pete works for Microsloth.

But speaking as a programmer, I've occasionally removed a feature from an application. Usually either because it didn't work, and couldn't reasonably be made to work, or because it was dangerous, or because it was so obscure, I didn't even know it was there. Only to find out (especially in the latter case) that somebody was actually using it, and complaining about it's removal. In such cases, it didn't stay "removed" for very long. Because (despite the late Mr. Jobs' delusions of omniscience) users know what they need, and don't need anybody else to tell them differently. And when removal of a fetaure makes new versions of a product less fit for a given purpose than supposedly-obsolete versions, it gives users a reason to REFUSE updates.

Simply stay with Snow Leopard if you cannot live without a feature that millions and millions of users of Lion/Mountain Lion/Mavericks appear to be living with for almost three years. There are a handful of you whinging still. 21 pages of useless and uninformed comments over three years does not seem to have made Apple reconsider. But good luck anyway. 😉

Cheers

Pete

It does. There is a 'report post' button, but I wouldn't expect to see any response.

As for responding, Pete is out best friend. Whenever I see this thread has dropped to the bottom, I just poke him once and that's worth the next two days of this being at the top of the heap. Please, feel free to explain to him again and again why Apple has let us all down.

It's fun, isn't it Scott. Half the posts here are like this. That is probably why Apple would ignore the thread if it ever did by chance see it.🙂

Your friend

Pete

No; Pete's posts offend us. And about the only kernel of truth to be found therein is the fact that whether it's web developers putting up egregiously bandwidth-intensive sites, or email reader developers trying to shove HTML email (which, aside from wasting bandwidth, is a nearly-ideal vector for both malware and online fraud) down users' throats (not to mention trying to force users to top-post, and keep them from trimming quoted material), or IBM discontinuing and all-but-deprecating perfectly serviceable terminal protocols like 3270 and 5250, or Microsloth pushing bloatware, or Apple discontinuing useful features, or both Apple and Microsloth pushing some idiot dream of a "common user experience" between devices that have very little in common, there are an awful lot of people out there who seem to think that "cool" (whatever the <what Dante called Inferno> that's supposed to mean) trumps practical.

hbquikcomjamesl wrote:

No; Pete's posts offend us. And about the only kernel of truth to be found therein is the fact that whether it's web developers putting up egregiously bandwidth-intensive sites, or email reader developers trying to shove HTML email (which, aside from wasting bandwidth, is a nearly-ideal vector for both malware and online fraud) down users' throats (not to mention trying to force users to top-post, and keep them from trimming quoted material), or IBM discontinuing and all-but-deprecating perfectly serviceable terminal protocols like 3270 and 5250, or Microsloth pushing bloatware, or Apple discontinuing useful features, or both Apple and Microsloth pushing some idiot dream of a "common user experience" between devices that have very little in common, there are an awful lot of people out there who seem to think that "cool" (whatever the **** that's supposed to mean) trumps practical.

Your question being?

Pete

petermac87 wrote:

Simply stay with Snow Leopard

That's not an option with my Mac Mini at work; the hardware is too new.

Neither is it an option with my G4 "Bionic Desk Lamp" iMac at home; the hardware is too old to go past Tiger.

And Pete flatters himself if he thinks I have a question for him.

hbquikcomjamesl wrote:

petermac87 wrote:

Simply stay with Snow Leopard

That's not an option with my Mac Mini at work; the hardware is too new.

Neither is it an option with my G4 "Bionic Desk Lamp" iMac at home; the hardware is too old to go past Tiger.

Then you really do need to buy hardware that suits whatever workflow (and software) you require. That is not our fault nor Apple's fault. That is simply up to you.

Good luck with that.

Pete

At least we can all agree that it is a "fault" to remove scroll bar arrows...;)

hbquikcomjamesl wrote:

my G4 "Bionic Desk Lamp" iMac at home; the hardware is too old to go past Tiger.

Hey, didn't Tiger have scroll bar Arrows as you require?

Pete

Ah, it's fun? Sounds suspiciously like at troll confession. S'ok. Like I said, for every one response from you come three or four reponses from people who AREN'T in wrong. Net gain. I'm hoping for 22 pages by the end of the evening.