Scroll Bar arrows Gone?

mulligans missus:

You are comparing entire "applications" to a basic application interface issue. Sensational, but not exactly fair.

I've been an apple fan/customer since the IIe, so I also know that Apple hasn't always been customer oriented when it comes to making changes. Lion has a lot of issues and it was designed with one purpose in mind: to begin getting everyone into Apple's iCloud environment.

The complaints about it, i.e., install issues, limited hardware support with slow performance and iCloud bugs have been prolific. I'm not comparing it directly to Vista, nothing could do that. But I stand by my opinion that it is a "place holder" OS and will be replaced entirely or through a major upgrade in a shortened life cycle.

The scroll arrows that everyone are crying for have been around since Xerox invented the GUI. I have them on my Mac 128k (Still runs!) and all my other Macs and it hasn't hampered any technical progress over all these years. I can't think of any GUI operating system that doesn't have them, no matter how advanced. Removing them is not some wonderful technological breakthrough. They are SOP for any user of any OS. If so many people want them back, what does that tell you?

And you failed to comment on the iPhone mail issue which to this day, is still a huge peve with users. Apple simply refuses to address it. <---- That being my main point about Apple listening to it's customers.

bummper01 wrote:

mulligans missus:

You are comparing entire "applications" to a basic application interface issue. Sensational, but not exactly fair.

But I stand by my opinion that it is a "place holder" OS and will be replaced entirely or through a major upgrade in a shortened life cycle.

They are SOP for any user of any OS. If so many people want them back, what does that tell you?

I was trying to point out that all things evolve over time. If it ain't broke don't fix it just doesn't cut it anymore. I was merely giving examples of where computing is going. I don't know if you were around when Apple decided to put Tabs On Top, and then removed the feature shortly after and there were probably ten times more complaints then there are about the scroll arrows. That issue died out quick and barely anyone can remember the incident. With MultiTrackpads and the Magic Mouse being standard features in the recent Macs, they may well be looking at this feature to be phased out. As I said, I agree with you, as I much prefer the scroll arrows, but if that is Apple's direction, then that is something we will just have to get used to in this ever changing world.

And you failed to comment on the iPhone mail issue which to this day, is still a huge peve with users. Apple simply refuses to address it. <---- That being my main point about Apple listening to it's customers.

And as far as that goes, it wasn't relevent to this thread on scroll bars. Maybe comment on that issue in mail, iPhone or iCloud forums. I have no problems with mail on iPhone 4.

Anyway Good Luck

Hmmm.... I'm wondering if you work for Apple? <g>

The iPhone issue was/is a good example. I like mine too, but it is not perfect and Apple could easily solve the issue if it wanted to.

You nailed one point: They want to sell Magic Mice, and before you comment on that, Yes, I like mine also.

Reading other people's posts, they all have legitimate reasons for having the arrows back that go beyond your reasoning. Apple should have made it a choice, period.

Nice bantering with you!

bummper01 wrote:

Hmmm.... I'm wondering if you work for Apple? <g>

The iPhone issue was/is a good example. I like mine too, but it is not perfect and Apple could easily solve the issue if it wanted to.

You nailed one point: They want to sell Magic Mice, and before you comment on that, Yes, I like mine also.

Reading other people's posts, they all have legitimate reasons for having the arrows back that go beyond your reasoning. Apple should have made it a choice, period.

Nice bantering with you!

No don't work for Apple, lol. I am actually agreeing with you. As I said twice, I would love to see scroll arrows back as well, I am just getting used to things if they are gone forever.

Iphone issues simply had nothing to do with this thread, that was all. I really only use mine mostly for calls and texts and emails.

Anyway Happy Computing and hope we get them back at some stage.

Anyway Happy Computing and hope we get them back at some stage.

Roger that!

Take care!

Thanks Jardar for posting where to send feedback to Apple - http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

I've just submitted mine.

No, not the same. First off, that was already an option, so nothing was added here. Second, when wading through large lists with much of the same info on them, incremental scrolling is the only way to avoid mistakes. When selecting multiple items while scrolling there is no way to move accurately. Using the page jump, usually one line is missed at each page, so a completely inadequate solution. This was a boneheaded thing for Apple to do, those arrows are VITAL to my workflow. Just when business is starting to adopt the MAC OS, they do something like this that completely fails to take the professional user into account.

Thank you. The first time a reply to one of my posts has taken exactly seven months. 😁

I note, with all due dismay, that the Mountain Lion preview data STILL does not seem to have scorll arrows. Not even as an option.

Apple is forcing us to change the way we do things. It's not happening naturally. This could backfire as PC's are still cheaper and HAVE scroll arrows. This is not a thing that appears to be going away in the real world, only apples. I don't know if it will hurt Apple, but is sure won't help them.

Apple seem to be doing something right, bobbing about in the two richest companies in the world. 🙂

I'm not dogging Apple. I'm a huge fanboy and want to see them take over the computer world. I'm just quesioning this one decision, with seems a little smug and 'my way or the highway' for my taste. Computers as powerful as Apples should be able to handle multiple ways of doing things. That's why the same functions are acceable from the menu, the window tool bar, hot key, etc.

Just seems a little odd that apple chose this feature to restrict, while seemingly expanding all the others.

What are Apple designers on? Why would you remove the scroll arrows? Sure, make them optional but why REMOVE them? Remember the backlash last time they were altered and put together instead of top and bottom?

I need scroll bars for my fine work on long documents. And for carefully checking my 24000 strong itunes database.

I don't need or want a magic mouse. I like the one I use.

The beauty of Apple products has always been that they allow the user to choose their own preferred way of working! Sort it out Apple.

I mainly use Finale and, like many other applications, scroll arrows allowed me to move incrementally one step at a time. Now I have to jump in huge chunks and carefully try to pan back to where I need to be. What lion has forced on me is in no way an "improvement" – but it is a major time-waster. I'm fine with dumbing things down to make general users happy, but more sophisticated users (I mean in particular areas) need to have tools to reset defaults which impair performance.

I went to Lion for one reason only - to keep my email address as it was being migrated to iCloud. This has meant updating four perfectly OK applications to work with lion (Finale, QuarkXPress, Dreamweaver, Microsoft Office) . . . none of them work better now or, actually, do as well as they did in Snow Leopard. Great way to go, and I wish I'd just changed my email account instead.

This was a big mistake for many professionals in music and design. Hopefully Apple will allow us more access to setting up parameters that we want.

While I'm here . . . I still hate the rainbow ball of doom and the silly cartoon icons in the dock, but oh well.

I just found something you may all be interested in...

In Lion, if you go to System Preferences and then General, you can control the settings of the scroll bars.

yes, but it doesn't have a magic "return my f***ing scroll arrows" option! 😟